The US House of Representatives passed ObamaCare by a narrow margin, with every Republican and 34 Democrats voting against it. They passed ObamaCare with the majority of voters standing up against it. Reid, Pelosi, Obama, all sorts of other elected officials are gloating in their victory over the will of the People.
It is very easy to find childish gloating from the left all over the blogosphere. And by “childish gloating” I do mean childish. Just spend a little time looking at the leftosphere and you will find all sorts of gloating that boils down to “Nanny nanny boo boo! We just beat the pants off of you!” But you don’t have to venture over to the leftosphere to find the childish taunts. You can find similar taunts from the left on conservative blogs. (To be clear here, not all among the left are gloating childishly, but the childishness is very evident. Some in the enemy camp are responsible folk who are just misinformed.)
To those on the left, I say THIS AIN’T OVER by any stretch of the imagination. To those on the right, Winston Churchill says “Never surrender. Never, never, never surrender.” This isn’t the end. This isn’t even the beginning of the end. This is merely the end of the beginning.
Many on the right were calling ObamaCare Obama’s Waterloo. Now, many on the left are calling the House vote our Waterloo. Both are wrong. We on the right have faced our Dunquerque and our Pearl Harbor. This ObamaCare process to this point has been our Corregidor, Singapore, North Africa. We are now in our Tobruk and Guadalcanal stage. And Patton is making his preparations for the North Africa campaign.
The reconciliation package faces many hurdles in the Senate. Hundreds of lawsuits are in the works. I have seen information suggesting multiple aspects of ObamaCare will not survive in court, based in part on the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 9th and 10th Amendments. States are bucking ObamaCare. Like Rommel’s over-extended North Africa supply line, Israel’s over-exuberant Sainai campaign (for their protection from Egypt), our “Bridge Too Far,” the left has over-extended itself and is very vulnerable in multiple ways.
It’s time to turn the Primary season into Sicily, Italy, Coral Sea, and the November off-year election into Midway, Normandy. And thinking down the road, turn the 2012 Primaries into the Battle of the Bulge and Iwo Jima. Then the 2012 general election will become the Crossing of the Rhine and Nagasaki. And, yes, we will still have the long-term cleanup that will follow.
The days are indeed dark right now, but Bismarck is gone and Truk is being severely harmed. This is definitely not a time for the weak-hearted and defeatists. This is a time for stoicism and resolve. The left has made a critical error: they have awakened the Slumbering Giant. And the Slumbering Giant is not at all pleased.
I have been wandering around the blogosphere and I have seen some demoralized folk. I already went through that stage myself, after this monstrosity of a government take-over of our liberties was passed. But I have also seen plenty of resolve. People all across the country are donning their armor and doing battle to take our country back and put the Constitution and Declaration of Independence back in prominence.
Never before has an “entitlement” package ever been repealed. I have heard that from the rightosphere. But never before have Conservatives demonstrated en masse. Until 2009. There is a reason the “Silent Majority” was very apt, but no more. We are no longer silently plodding along. We are loudly standing up and being counted. Looking throughout history, “never before” usually meets up with “until now.” Well, this is the “until now” that the left doesn’t want to believe can happen and some on the right don’t believe can happen. But it will happen, with stoicism and resolve.
My blog wanderings brought me to The Camp of the Saints and a lot of linkage and excerpts from multiple conservative sites expressing the resolve to fight and win. I was also reminded of Patrick Henry’s famous words, so I looked them up and found more than I expected.
I am sure everyone has heard all or part of this quote:
It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace– but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
It came from an entire speech, which it would behoove you to read. Because Patrick Henry has a lot more to say in that speech about today.
Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.
Do not forget that the colonists were not all in favor of independence. In fact, 1/3 were in favor of continued subservience to King George, 1/3 were in favor of independence, and 1/3 decided they didn’t have a dog in the fight.
I leave you with this:
Never give up. Never surrender. Never, never, never surrender.
_______________________________
Cross Posted on Truth Before Dishonor
Thanks. Your post is just what the doctor ordered (no pun intended). We’ve got to fight this.
And don’t forget BO insulted England by giving back the bust of Churchill from the Oval Office. I guess a man of that stature bothered BO.
Remember back when the public overwhelmingly opposed President Bush’s invasion of Iraq and you right-leaning fellows had a whole line about how governing by poll was a terrible, terrible idea? Good times!
When was this public sentiment? At the invasion’s onset? If so, I think you’d better check those polls again …
Umm, OK. I’m sure there’s enough information here for you to build a typically cherry-picked case, but here’s the pertinent line:
if the Bush administration didn’t not seek a final Security Council vote, support for a war dropped to 47%.[8]
Once people who have no healthcare have healthcare, I can guarantee you that poll numbers about healthcare will spike, just as polls regarding the war spiked as its inevitability loomed. This, however, will obviously be the fault of the liberal media. The fact remains: conservatives spent eight years responding to Bush’s declining poll numbers with “you can’t govern by poll! these numbers indicate that we should be scared of all the crazy liberals!” etc. For you to seek solace in poll numbers now is a little sad.
so keeping with the analogy, would the far left who opposed the bill be the USSR?
if so, this time we better not let them take eastern europe.
My niece, who works in the medical field, is visiting from Australia and can’t believe that we’re getting a system that stinks in Canada, Australia and England. What a lot of people are wondering is why we have to have it but the politicians don’t? Do you think for one minute they’d be fighting for it if they would be under the same insurance? If any of you socialist-loving people out there can explain that, I’d appreciate it. And another thing, why don’t you people who think this is so great live in a system like that for a year and see how well you like it. My niece is from the states originally so she knows how good we had it.
cbmc: Since Wiki is notoriously unreliable, you might wanna take a gander at this which puts public support for the war at its inception at around 72%. Even this poll, taken in August of 2003, had almost 2/3 of the American public saying the war was “worth fighting.”
OK cbmc: Since Wiki is notoriously unreliable, you might wanna take a gander at this which puts public support for the war at its inception at around 72%. Even this poll, taken in August of 2003, had almost 2/3 of the American public saying the war was “worth fighting.”
Since Wiki is notoriously unreliable, you might wanna take a gander at this which puts public support for the war at its inception at around 72%. Even this poll, taken in August of 2003, had almost 2/3 of the American public saying the war was “worth fighting.”
Hmm… just tried posting a comment (had 2 links in it) yet nothing at all appeared, not even a note that “comment was in moderation.”
Any help, guys?
I was looking for the correct word that Healthcare run by the Government will put us. I think this is it:
vassalage
vas·sal·age [ váss'lij ]
noun
Definition:
1. condition of being vassal: the dependent condition of being somebody’s vassal
2. dependent condition: a condition of being dependent on or subordinate to somebody or something else
Hube:
Hmm… just tried posting a comment (had 2 links in it) yet nothing at all appeared, not even a note that “comment was in moderation.”
Any help, guys?
It’s caught in the SPAM Filter. I checked “Not Spam” and it doesn’t listen to me. Maybe it thinks I’m Pork
Hopefully you can get it out. It has links to two polls (non-Wikipedia) that completely rebut cbmc’s poll that the American public did not support the Iraq invasion.
Hube:
Hopefully you can get it out. It has links to two polls (non-Wikipedia) that completely rebut cbmc’s poll that the American public did not support the Iraq invasion.
Figured it out.
John H, great piece. Well written and with excellent historical parallels. And of course the stirring words of one of our Founders.
Again, congrats. If you ever quit your day job, you can always find work as a political commentator.
It is very easy to find childish gloating from the left all over the blogosphere. And by “childish gloating” I do mean childish. Just spend a little time looking at the leftosphere and you will find all sorts of gloating that boils down to “Nanny nanny boo boo! We just beat the pants off of you!”
you forgot “neaner, neaner, neaner.”
It’s time to turn the Primary season into Sicily, Italy, Coral Sea, and the November off-year election into Midway, Normandy. And thinking down the road, turn the 2012 Primaries into the Battle of the Bulge and Iwo Jima. Then the 2012 general election will become the Crossing of the Rhine and Nagasaki. And, yes, we will still have the long-term cleanup that will follow.
Lmao. You wonder why people on the left are mocking you. Look at that statement above. all over healthcare. Healthcare? Really? Bizarre, just bizarre.
get off the internet for a few hours and step back into reality for a second. Take a deep breath, remember how inconsequential you are on this planet and take a chill pill.
Iwo Jima? lmao, what a loon.
I have seen information suggesting multiple aspects of ObamaCare will not survive in court, based in part on the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 9th and 10th Amendments. States are bucking ObamaCare. Like Rommel’s over-extended North Africa supply line, Israel’s over-exuberant Sainai campaign (for their protection from Egypt), our “Bridge Too Far,” the left has over-extended itself and is very vulnerable in multiple ways.
wooohoooo, you are cracking me up. Head back to civics class my brother. Just a waste of tax payer money. The states aren’t reversing jack shit. Like Rommel? Really. It’s not how our country works my man.
Hube, John H, you don’t even have the poll numbers on your side. It’s true that only 39% of people support the new health care bill last I checked, but as for the rest, they’re not all on your side. In fact, 13% of Americans oppose the bill because it’s too conservative – meaning that over half (51%) of Americans either support this bill or want something bigger and more comprehensive. Indeed, when asked why they opposed the bill, only 43% of Americans replied that they thought it was too liberal, and considering how loaded a word “liberal” is in our political discourse, I think that number’s soft.
That’s hardly going against the will of the people, there.
Poll data here.
Here’s what we got – enjoy!
http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/1563-20-ways-obamacare-will-take-away-our-freedoms
Donviti just provided himself as an example of my paragraph two and then Jeff came along and provided himself as an example of my parenthetical in paragraph two.
Oh, and repeal is something of a pipe dream. First, Republicans would have to win 2/3 majorities in both houses of Congress (since Obama will veto any repeal bill). That would mean picking up 26 Senate seats. This year, 18 Democratic seats are up for election. So the House and Senate won’t have repeal-ready Republican majorities in 2011 even in rosy scenarios that involve defeating Leahy and Schumer.
So the best-case scenario for repeal would be 2013, which would involve a) a 19-seat Senate pickup (repeal can’t go through reconciliation) between the 2010 and 2012 elections, b) a Republican win in the 2012 Presidential election (for which there are currently a dearth of viable candidates), and c) the cooperation of all the moderate Republicans that would have to be elected to create such a landslide, not to mention sitting ones like Snowe, Collins, and Brown.
I ain’t saying it’s impossible – just that it would take a series of breaks that would make Wade McCluskey look like an unlucky schmoe.
John, are my numbers misinformed? Is there something wrong with the poll? Even at the high end of the error margin it ends up being something like 48-46 against liberal reform – which is a pretty even split.
Jeff: “So the best-case scenario for repeal would be 2013″
And by then, most Americans will be saying, “You can have my healthcare when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.”
Um, ok. I just keep remembering how a guy who explicitly campaigned against ObamaCare in Massachusetts won fairly handily…
Ok, but can you think of an actual example?
I’m not a socialist but I can explain it.
I’ll give the the short version for once: Misery loves your company and covets your resources, even if the reciprocal is not true.
As one Canadian citizen explained his feelings on Windsor radio, paraphrase: “We might not have all the latest and the best, but what’s important is that we all have the same.”
Hube, Scott Brown campaigned against Martha Coakley, if I remember correctly.
And Massachusetts already had ObamaCare (though they call it RomneyCare), so the election was more about terrorism and fearmongering than it was about health care. Seemed to me Brown ran more on terror scare tactics than on health care reform, and the health care stuff was to get the far-right on his side.
The modern liberal’s comfort and reassurance; the Stockholm syndrome.
“It hurts of course, but once you more or less get used to it, you will be afraid to go back to normal. You’ll see. You’ll grow used to your cage. You will be like us …”
Jeff: “Scott Brown campaigned against Martha Coakley”
Someone who was so unloveable, it’s a wonder she can still hold her old job.
Jeff: “And Massachusetts already had ObamaCare (though they call it RomneyCare)”
Yup. And guess who voted for it? Typical GOPer. I’ve got mine; screw you.
DNW: Thanks for your explanation. It’s not about healthcare – and this certainly isn’t health reform -
it’s about control and bigger government. Biden, the loose cannon, actually came out and told the truth for a change when he said they will control the insurance companies. (He has to be losing it completely because he’s starting to tell the truth). The middle class has always been the sticking point with the socialists; now they’re sticking it to us.
You are damn right. Look at all the roadblocks your people put up and it still got through. You are damn right we (me) are going to do a victory lap. Wahhhh. Suck it up. This is what elections are for. You expected a year long fight to have people quietly enjoy the victory?
give me a break, your point that I’m gloating is empty and means nothing. 30,000,000 more Americans have health care. Less people are going to die. Medicare Part D closes up and now Seniors drug prices lowered.
Yes, this bill was so Un American.
you lost bitch. The party of No was defeated.
So they already had the state version of ObamaCare, and voted for Brown … why, again? Maybe b/c RomneyCare sucks? And based on what, exactly, do you claim Brown’s election was due to terrorism and — good one — fearmongering? Was his explicit stance against ObamaCare an example of fearmongering? And how in the world did Brown get elected in one of the bluest states in the Union?
don is ultimately right, of course. Still, why was it so hard to pass despite the GOP roadblocks? The Dems have an overwhelming majority!
But yep — this is what elections are for, after all.
Nevertheless, I wonder if the Left will whine about the upcoming lawsuits against ObamaCare, especially since going immediately to the courts after legislation they don’t like is a tried and true tactic of theirs …
Hube,
whine about what lawsuits? Those are jokes too and I’m sure you know it. It is a huge waste of tax payer money. they are just placating the brick throwers at this point. You and I both know that the lawsuits aren’t going to pass muster.
I do love this post though. I picture this guy pulling out his old Army suit and stuffing his plumpness inside the green cotton. As the cotton and buttons burst at the seems he slaps on his helmet and finds the chin strap won’t stretch under his double chin. As he struggles to lace his boots he decides instead to sit down and type out this awesome Keyboard Commando rant.
You are a true patriot Hitch-cock. This post has made me laugh so loud at the WWII references. I’m sure the guys storming Normandy applaud this type of parallel. Especially the ones paying 10x’s what they should be paying for their prescriptions thanks to Bush and your R’s.
I have been wandering around the blogosphere and I have seen some demoralized folk. I already went through that stage myself, after this monstrosity of a government take-over of our liberties was passed. But I have also seen plenty of resolve. People all across the country are donning their armor and doing battle to take our country back and put the Constitution and Declaration of Independence back in prominence.
man what a hoot.
go throw a brick through a legislator’s office or send a noose to someone. Like the rest of your angry mob friends
donviti> You know what sort of righteous indignation you’re opening yourself up to, right? Please allow me to paraphrase:
HOW DARE YOU! HOW DARE YOU!! HOW DARE YOU!?!!?!
SOLDIERS DIED SO THAT I COULD ENJOY MY MOUNTAIN DEW CODE RED! LIKE YOUR AMERICAN FLAG BEER COOZY? THANK A VET!
-The 101st Fighting Keyboarders
For the record, I was never in the Army. I wouldn’t stoop so low. (And for the uninformed, it only takes two clicks to understand what I just said.)
You are a true patriot Hitch-cock.
Nice childish attack on my name, bub. I bet you snorted and guffawed all the while you were writing out that “original” piece of guana.
go throw a brick through a legislator’s office or send a noose to someone. Like the rest of your angry mob friends
You mean like that gender-bender who trashed that DNC office in Colorado? What was the dude’s name? Ariel Attack? Oh, that’s right, he was an anarchist who was getting money from the DNC. Perhaps you mean that angry TEA Party mob that beat up a handicapped black man in St Louis? Oh, that’s right, SEIU members did that. Or maybe you’re thinking about that TEA Partier who bit off the finger of an octogenarian WWII vet in California? Oh, wait, the octogenarian WWII vet was the TEA Partier and a SEIU thug bit off his finger. Or perhaps you’re talking about that terrorist wing of the RNC, the KKK? Oh, wait, the KKK was the terrorist wing of the DNC.
My “angry mob friends” don’t even know enough to trash up the place. Promise Keepers had a DC gathering that was larger than Farakhan’s “Million Man March” but the place was clean after Promise Keepers and filthy after MMM. And Earth Day crowds leave places a shambles. The huge TEA Party in DC last year was very noticeable in the lack of trash that followed after it was over. We surely don’t know how to trash places up. But that comes with an understanding of something the leftist crowds have never learned: Personal Responsibility.
I do Mike. but I have two magnetic yellow ribbons on my car and, AND an american flag bumper sticker.
So, I’m mega patriotic
The state lawsuits most probably, yes. However, it’s a different story when it comes to the matter of the feds forcing people to purchase a private product (insurance). (Well, it’s still private for the time being.)
I’m just as sure that you speak for the guys who stormed the beaches.
I personally think that VA hospitals are an affront to our liberties. NOWHERE in that holiest of holy documents, THE CONSTITUTION, does it say that veterans deserve health care.
VA hospitals are an assault on freedom! Tyranny! Patrick Henry!
hube,
what about auto insurance? Homeowners insurance? flood insurance?
It will be fun to watch the Republicans alienate more voters over the next 8 months.
It’s over. Whip out the fat lady, wrap her in a flag and dunk her in apple pie.
Democracy at it’s best.
This strikes me as seriously dangerous to the GOP. Political parties have destroyed themselves before, and this is a good opportunity for them. 8 months of screaming, racism, sporadic vandalism and violence and the vast majority will get pretty damned angry at the fringe. And most of the sitting congressmen and senators of the GOP seem to be pretty fringy, themselves.
John McCain: “You’ll get no more cooperation from us!” Good gravy, can you get any more clueless?
Donviti, one party rule and the dictatorship of the minority is just that, Democracy. At first. Then it twists itself into something else. That’s why we wwere not set up as a Democracy. The Founders knew how evil they become. We used to have a Republic, too bad we couldn’t keep it.
Funny thing is it’s the guys like you who will go to shit first. Guys like us generate the wealth and when we stop, and we will stop, you guys are royally screwed. We have the means to just leave. You rice eating chumps don’t. There are plenty of places that would love me to set up businesses. How about you? Got plans? You’ll need’em.
The US House of Representatives passed ObamaCare by a narrow margin, with every Republican and 34 Democrats voting against it. They passed ObamaCare with the majority of voters standing up against it. Reid, Pelosi, Obama, all sorts of other elected officials are gloating in their victory over the will of the People.
Uh-huh.
Funny thing is it’s the guys like you who will go to shit first. Guys like us generate the wealth and when we stop, and we will stop, you guys are royally screwed.
In general, the red states are the parasites and the blue states generate the wealth. Sorry, but them’s the facts. If you wanna believe that Mississippi, Alabama and Arkansas are more productive than California, Massachusetts and New York, feel free.
You mean like that gender-bender who trashed that DNC office in Colorado? What was the dude’s name? Ariel Attack? Oh, that’s right, he was an anarchist who was getting money from the DNC. Perhaps you mean that angry TEA Party mob that beat up a handicapped black man in St Louis? Oh, that’s right, SEIU members did that. Or maybe you’re thinking about that TEA Partier who bit off the finger of an octogenarian WWII vet in California? Oh, wait, the octogenarian WWII vet was the TEA Partier and a SEIU thug bit off his finger. Or perhaps you’re talking about that terrorist wing of the RNC, the KKK? Oh, wait, the KKK was the terrorist wing of the DNC.
My “angry mob friends” don’t even know enough to trash up the place. Promise Keepers had a DC gathering that was larger than Farakhan’s “Million Man March” but the place was clean after Promise Keepers and filthy after MMM. And Earth Day crowds leave places a shambles. The huge TEA Party in DC last year was very noticeable in the lack of trash that followed after it was over. We surely don’t know how to trash places up. But that comes with an understanding of something the leftist crowds have never learned: Personal Responsibility.
Shorter PB: I believe every piece of garbage that comes from Beck’s lips.
Let’s just look at one of PB’s fantasies:
Or maybe you’re thinking about that TEA Partier who bit off the finger of an octogenarian WWII vet in California? Oh, wait, the octogenarian WWII vet was the TEA Partier and a SEIU thug bit off his finger.
i, The guy, William Rice, was 65 years old, meaning he was born in 1944. It’s unlikely that he was a WWII veteran unless he had particularly noxious diapers.
ii, The person who bit him wasn’t identified, as far as I know. He was a member of a Moveon.org rally, not a SEIU member.
ii, Rice admitted at the scene to throwing the first punch!!!. An eyewitness report:
This shows why wingnut accounts cannot be trusted. We have a right-wing protester who started a fight, and in the resulting fracas got bitten. When PB, a typical lying wingnut, reports the incident, the victim who got punched becomes a union thug, the fight is reported as being started by the other side, and the person who threw the punch has morphed into an octogenarian WWII vet.
As always, wingnuts lie.
For the record, I was never in the Army. I wouldn’t stoop so low. (And for the uninformed, it only takes two clicks to understand what I just said.)
What? Army pension plan and medical benefits not as good as the Marines, JH?
Eruption of self-righteousness in 3…2…1…
[...] Sense Political Thought - This Ain’t Over Submitted by Colossus of [...]
What about them? Do we need to deconstruct those supposedly unconditional and distributive “mandates” the same way we showed Nangleator’s water and roads tax comparisons to be intellectually bankrupt?
By the way, even though your questions are stupid, they do make better reading than your spittle dripping political rape fantasies. Congratulations …
It is possible to drive a car on any highway in the US without having insurance and without breaking the law. It is also possible to own a home without homeowner’s insurance or flood insurance without violating any laws or contracts.
Beyond that, it is a choice to own a car or a home, a choice many in NYC do not make. You will not cease to exist if you own neither.
Why should we fund VA hospitals?
Why should someone give you a paycheck, Mike?
I’m not asking for somebody to give me a paycheck.
Do you think VA hospitals should be federally funded?
It’s a simple question, JH.
So you’re on the government dole, then? That’s good to know.
John Hitchcock: “It is possible to drive a car on any highway in the US without having insurance and without breaking the law.”
Not if you live in Massachusetts and drive there.
DNW, I brought up roads and water and sewer and other services to make a point that health insurance can be just another service the government provides, instead of the cataclysmic destruction of everything right and good that you see. I didn’t expect the analogies to be perfect. That you were able to prove they weren’t doesn’t prove that health care reform will destroy all freedom, erase America, cause everyone’s head to light on fire, and kick all kittens and puppies into the meat grinder.
I’m not on the government dole, unlike recipients of free health care at federally funded, unconstitutional, liberty robbing VA hospitals.
Not on the government dole and not getting a paycheck? I guess that means you’re independently wealthy and not working. What else is there?
Shorter Phoeny: Beck is unbelievable, yet the Huffington Post is reliable. Check.
I’m still wondering where the video/audio evidence is of the racial and homophobic epithets hurled at John Lewis, Barney Frank, et. al. this weekend.
Just curious — how is it “free” getting care at VA hospitals when it is a service performed in exchange for a service (as in military)?
Where is it stated in the US Constitution that veterans should receive health care? And I’m not exactly given a choice as to whether or not my tax dollars are funneled there, am I? I’m compelled to do so by a tyrannical federal government.
If soldiers were responsible and weren’t expecting handouts like a bunch of collectivist lay-abouts then they’d have to fend for themselves in the free market and stop mooching off of productive citizens like myself. Why should I be compelled to support them?
Where is it stated in the US Constitution that veterans should receive health care? And I’m not exactly given a choice as to whether or not my tax dollars are funneled there, am I? I’m compelled to do so by a tyrannical federal government.
The power to level taxes and maintain armed forces are part of the Constitution, Mike. Those opposed to ObamaCare understand the former, but this would be the first time Americans would be compelled to purchase a [private] product whether they want to or not. Or face a penalty. But this penalty is being called a “tax.” That doesn’t [legally] sound like a tax, however.
Perhaps b/c they signed on to one of the actual purposes of the federal government, Mike — national defense — and as part of their contract in willing to make the ultimate sacrifice get healthcare during and after their service. Y’know, contracts that have been part of the legal system since beyond our own Founding?
Maintaining a seventy year old vets ability to carry out his activities of daily living isn’t exactly “maintaining the armed forces”. Those people in the VA aren’t exactly “armed”, are they? Nor does the Constitution state that I should be giving them handouts for perpetuity. The Constitution, and our founding fathers, also went to great lengths to stress the difference between a militia and a standing army. The latter they quite unequivocally associated with tyranny.
But I’m with you. I don’t like the fact that I’m forced to make sure that a private industry, and so therefore by it’s very nature is undemocratic, is subsidized. Like I said in another comment thread, it’s the worst part of the bill.
Well, if you read the fulminations of characters like Vito or whatever, you see that they would like to, apparently.
Nothing enrages a lefty so much as the prospect of being thrown upon his own resources or being held to account for his own actions.
Now, given their view of reality, and how they see themselves as “members of mankind”, which is in general radically different from that of a traditionalist, it’s little wonder that they do.
Concepts that are psychologically important to you, such as “truth” or “honor”, are for them merely the culturally conditioned vestiges of patriarchy. “Individuality”? Just a secular hangover from some supernaturalistic mumbo-jumbo about “persons” having souls. “Natural rights”? An idea derived from more of the same.
So as I said, they view human reality rather differently than most people who have a traditional moral foundation which emphasizes personal responsibility and the person as the locus of moral responsibility.
And nothing drives the lefty crazier than for you to assert that they are morally responsible for themselves …
Oh wait, strangely, there is one thing that does drive them crazier.
That thing is to grant a working hypothesis when dealing with them “personally” that they are what they say all humans are.
That is, to actively assume when speaking to them, that they are soul-less bags of material appetite, seeking to fulfil satisfactions that cannot be judged as better or worse in themselves, through an essentially amoral faculty of strictly instrumental reason. To assume, that their “human value” is not to be judged against some outmoded supernaturally based standard that implies they have intrinsic value or rights; but instead, against an arbitrary standard of social utility and principles for evaluating the same, which cannot in themselves be judged as right or wrong, objectively better or worse.
Now, logically speaking, they should have no reason to take offense at this. For it is only their own doctrine applied to themselves in practical terms. But they do all the same.
Funny isn’t it?
Sounds a lot more constitutional to me than, say, the “right” to an abortion …
“Maintaining” is at least as flexible as “speech” has been made out to be in the First Amendment, I’d say.
“Maintaining” is at least as flexible as “speech” has been made out to be in the First Amendment, I’d say.
Well, it says “provide for a common defence” and “general welfare” but unfortunately common defense is interpreted as a blank check for a standing army while general welfare is interpreted as zilcho.
Well, Hube, I personally think that the VA is horribly under-funded. I was just trying to make a rhetorical point to the absolutists around here. Obviously you’re not one of them.
This fellow is confusing who actually does the producing in the blue states, with the client class and it’s managers who have gained political control through the ballot.
It takes a while for the lefties to take a state down and force enough outward migration so that even the state’s natural resources and historical advantages are not enough to compensate for their demands.
Michigan wasn’t successfully undermined in a day. The Democrats have been working at if for generations now.
One of the best examples of what they can accomplish when they set their “minds” to it, and have unbroken and unchallenged control of a polity, is the city of Detroit: the most Democrat city; the most liberal in politics; the most (for native born population) functionally illiterate; and probably, the most dysfunctional, city in the U.S.
A two term Demo Governor who promised to “blow away” the people of the state of Michigan with her performance, has been trying her best to live up to that promise, and to the example set by the political class of Michigan’s major city. She’s pretty well accomplished it.
Democrats at work in the “Laboratory of Democracy” don’t you know …
That thing is to grant a working hypothesis when dealing with them “personally” that they are what they say all humans are.
That is, to actively assume when speaking to them, that they are soul-less bags of material appetite, seeking to fulfil satisfactions that cannot be judged as better or worse in themselves, through an essentially amoral faculty of strictly instrumental reason. To assume, that their “human value” is not to be judged against some outmoded supernaturally based standard that implies they have intrinsic value or rights; but instead, against an arbitrary standard of social utility and principles for evaluating the same, which cannot in themselves be judged as right or wrong, objectively better or worse.
Shorter DNW: The voices are talking to me again.
This fellow is confusing who actually does the producing in the blue states, with the client class and it’s managers who have gained political control through the ballot.
Shorter DNW: California’s economy depends on five people, all of whom vote Republican. Nobody else bothers to go to work.
To those on the left, I say THIS AIN’T OVER by any stretch of the imagination. To those on the right, Winston Churchill says “Never surrender. Never, never, never surrender.” This isn’t the end. This isn’t even the beginning of the end. This is merely the end of the beginning.
You will be ecstatic to know that it appears that your fellow wingnuts have already started attempting assassinations. Well done, PB.
Are we really going to attempt to paint entire movements on the actions of a few nuts? Really? If so, I guess “your fellow moonbats” were involved in threatening Senator Bunning when he filibustered, right?
Hube and others, may I suggest that you don’t feed the NZT? Feeding trolls is hazardous to your health.
Indeed, John. My error.
Are we really going to attempt to paint entire movements on the actions of a few nuts?
Riiiiight – because this sort of action is totally divorced from calls for all out war such as the post starting this thread?
Apology accepted, Hube.
John: Senator Bunning’s threats are indicative of all “progressives” these days, I guess. You agree?
Hube, I’ll agree that all those Bush=Hitler signs, those movies advocating the assassination of Bush, those signs wishing for Bush’s murder, those people demanding that Thomas have a heart attack and die, those people demanding that Cheney have a heart attack and die are all proof that all Liberals and Progressives are advocating murder, desirous of murder, and criminally dangerous. After all, there’s orders of magnitude more evidence of that sort of thing coming from all striations of the Left than from sporadic “anti-them” folk (some of whom are even further left).
Actually, HCR does include an opt-out for states if they can meet certain goals without a mandate.
And as I mentioned in another thread, why should the insurance industry be compelled to insure those who come waltzing in as soon as they finally sense their mortality?
Insurance works on a simple model: You pay during the good times, so that the money is there for the bad times. If you’re “opting out” during the good times, coming back later wanting to buy in is a form of gaming the system, is it not?
So for those who think they’re being robbed of “freedom” by being compelled to face up to their mortality and buy health insurance, the perfect opt-out is this: You opt-out, and agree to pay for your medical expenses out of pocket the rest of your life. No insurance company or emergency room will be held responsible for your illness, injury or death should you be unable to pay.
It earned silence in the previous comment thread. Let’s try it again and see what reaction I get.
Because my suspicion is that you guys haven’t quite thought this one through all the way.
You’re right John Hitchcock, this ain’t over yet. Yesterday a couple friends came over to help me cut off a tree limb that was whacking my garage roof and gutter. After, we went to the Club for a few pints. At 5pm on a Wednesday it gets pretty crowded with the after work crowd as it was yesterday. In walked three members who are famous Democrats (one a top union thug in Philly) to celebrate a birthday. The drinks started flying and one of them stood up and said: “Who is happy about last Sundays vote?” Two guys at the far side of the bar threw their fists in the air and hooted. The rest of us were stunned silent. We have an unwritten law about politics in the Club. We don’t disguss, period. Then the guy continued: “The Democratic Party as we have known it is dead. It has been taken over by progressives and Marxists and today we switched to Republican.” He continued: “Tommy picked up voter registration forms down town so if any of you want to switch you can. They are self addressed and don’t need postage.” Continuing he said: “We can’t defeat these lefitists if we’re not united under one party and libertarians and independents aren’t helping.” Then he looked at me and said: “You’re an independent, aren’t you Hoagie?”
I looked at him and said: “Not any more, now I’m a Republican, give me a form. You know guys, in America revolutions are traditionaly begun in taverns and I don’t see why this should be the exception.”
They collected 12 registration forms and the bartender ran them down the street to the post office. Even two wacko “Perot People” switched. The 15 or so Republicans were laughing and I said: “What the hell are you laughing for? You guys put up another leftist-light like McCain again and we’re coming for you next”. They quit chuckeling then.
Nah, this ain’t over.
If the Stupid Party has any brains at all they should do like these three guys did. Begin a nationwide campaign to register all voters to Republican and show all the clips of the dirty deals, bribes etc. Sadly, it took three Dem….ex-Democrats to organize the idea. We gotta get on board here or this Republic is history. Funny, it’s really no longer about health care. It’s about the way the politicians operate and that ain’t pretty.
By the way, the two hooting Democrats didn’t switch. One of them shouted to my buddy; “Well, the Republicans could have made it bi-partisan.” My buddy screamed back; “They did. Reps and Dems both voted against it, that’s bi-partisan you ass hole. ONLY dems voted for it, that’s not. That’s a one party dictatorship like Cuba.”
T’was an interesting evening.
BTW, I’d like to thank Perry, nangleator, donviti, Jeromy, Blubonnet and Pho. As I filled out my new registration all their rediculous posts went shooting through my mind and I knew then I was doing the right thing.
Hoagie: Feel free to respond with some substance to anything I’ve said.
And I hope you tried to educate your buddy on what “dictatorship” means. Or was the mob mentality just too prevalent that night?
Jeromy, I suggest that the next time you require “substance” in refutation of any of your statements, you first supply “substance.” As of yet, I have not seen any “substance” of any sort tied to you.
Yes Jeromy, it was a “mob mentality”. We were inches from pitch forks and tortches. Had they agreed with you it could have been a rally or community organizing event.
My buddy is correct. Cuba has a one party dictatorship. That means one party rules, not governs. As in; “We won”. Which was Obamaspeak for: screw you. Got it? Moonbat.
Jeromy, your idea sounds great. My concern however, is that those who opt out for life will be coming in for health care anyway, when they are older and their health begins to fade, taking advantage of the Hippocratic oath, so to speak. So they will end up being a burden that will cost us all more money, spent on those who have revoked their own responsibilities for themselves and others.
Regarding expecting a response from Hoagie, don’t. That mindset usually does not allow for reasoned and rational discussion, as the club scene well illustrated. It has more to do with a mob mentality, in my view.
I’d love to review all your posts and disguss each with you. That would, I assume give you the substance you so rightly desire. (sarcasm). However, I must soon leave to earn a living to pay the taxes you will no doubt need for all your social justice programs and which, like most leftists, are incapable of funding yourself. You’re welcome.
What part of that “Club scene” illustrated the lack of reasoning and rational discussion? Even the die-hard Democrats were reserved and pleasant. But wrong nonetheless.
So nothing but trash talk, eh?
Not really surprising.
I guess, Hoagie, you being able to explain the definition of a dictatorship to your friend would have involved you understanding it yourself.
Perry: Of course. I know the opt-out is unrealistic, I’m just waiting for one of these “ILOSTMYFREEDOMOBAMAISTEHDICTATOR!!!” fellaz to actually tell me how it contradicts their objections to the mandate.
What I’m illustrating is the utter bankruptcy and radicalism of the GOP. ZOMG an elected majority legally voted on the policy they ran for office touting! Dictatorship!!! It’s utterly laughable to anybody who isn’t huffing a steady diet of Fox News, talk radio, and rightwing blogs.
I’d like to add that Hoagie’s story sounds like fiction anyway. Really, a Democrat would say, ““The Democratic Party as we have known it is dead. It has been taken over by progressives and Marxists and today we switched to Republican.”
The Democrat Party has been trying to increase health care and the safety net since Roosevelt. What the hell party did they think they were in when Bill Clinton tried it? When Johnson got Medicare and Medicaid? Who do they think was responsible for Social Security?
This just sounds, honestly, like some dream-wish narrative. Health care for all has been the core of the Democratic platform, and Barack Obama pulled it off with a Republican plan.
Sorry, Hoagie, but your intellectual dishonesty doesn’t make your story more credible. I’m saying bullshit.
Jeromy, you can say that all you want but when November rolls around, you won’t know what hit you because you’ve been willfully blind to the facts for a very long time.
When 40 percent of the voters call themselves conservative, 36 percent moderate and only 20 percent liberal and when you, Perry, Naggy, Blu, Mike, cbmc are all to the left of the majority of those who call themselves liberal, it is you folk who are on the fringe and not facing facts or the truth. It is you folk who are now and ever have been intellectually dishonest.
John: I’m to the left of those who call themselves liberal?
Sorry, your “facts” aren’t being ignored. They’re being paid very close attention to, and laughed at as a precise result of their fanciful nature.
The bill was Mitt Romney’s health care “solution” that he bragged about in the 2008 election. It was similar to what the Republicans said we should have done when Clinton proposed government health care.
It’s a mixture of public and private forces. We’re utilizing private companies and private hospitals to provide care. Among sane people, this bill is obviously compromised and not entirely pleased to the left. It excludes the public option, which polled very well.
I’d like to know just what is so “radical” about this compromised Republican-style plan that utilizes private entities to achieve public goals.
Also, I don’t care about your predictions. You’re a pretty dishonest guy yourself, and won’t change your tune a lick. The polls are already showing a bounce in support for the plan now that it’s passed and the tedious drama is over. Have you altered your tone at all? Of course not.
It’s expected that Democrats will lose some seats this election. Health care will have little to do with the number, the economy (that Bush broke) will. Sadly, while voters understood in 2008 that the crisis would take years to resolve, the Republicans have bene content to lie constantly and freely about the economy and pin it all on the guy we hired to fix the problem Republicans created.
It’s really sad, and I wish you guys would act with one shred of the love you claim to display for this country. Unfortunately, it’s always about electing more Republicans. Everything else is secondary, if it even exists.
As usual Jeromy, when a leftist dosen’t like something the other person must be a liar. Them’s the facts dipstick, and if you don’t like them, well tough shit.
Are you referring to John’s Book of November Revelations or your tall tale of a Democratic exodus to the Republican party over achieving the 60+ year goal of the Democratic party?
From Rasmussen:
It is not difficult to forecast a major sea-change in November, since there is already a major sea-change. The amplitude of the sea-change is the only question at this time.
John: Thank you for tempering your prediction. It’s expected that there will be Democratic losses this November and everybody knows it. With unemployment this high still in an off year, nobody could expect differently.
I read something earlier today that put it like this: If HCR is still an issue eight months from now, it’ll be because the job situation has improved enough that people will let their attention wander. And if jobs have gotten better (though not super-likely, there is a trend of improving statistics), then there will be much better will towards the Democrats.
It’s really about the economy. The more you guys can calm down about HCR, the more attuned you’ll be to the country’s real problems.
JH> So you’re predicting that the minority party is going to win some seats in an off-year congressional election? That’s brilliant, John. Could you look into your crystal ball and tell me in what direction the sun will rise tomorrow morning? That’s about the most banal political observation anybody could make. Of course, the Republicans are going to make some gains in the House.
[Released from moderation 1900 EDT -- JH]
Jeromy, you’re depending on SASA (Short Attention Span Americans) in your above statement. While SASA will still be a factor in November, as it has been for decades, it will not have as big an impact as previously because a great many people will not let the anti-freedom ObamaCare power-grab vanish from the debate. And the country’s real problems are government power-grabs, first and foremost. Those power-grabs contribute greatly to the economic downturn. They also contribute greatly to the cost of healthcare, the quickening loss of availability of healthcare providers, the increasing cost of fuel and electricity, etc, ad infinitum.
It may be “the economy stupid” that drives SASA, but it is the government power-grab that is driving “the economy stupid” into the toilet. Trillion-dollar deficit spending destroys the economy much faster than 300-billion-dollar deficit spending. Keynes was dead wrong; Keynesians are also dead-wrong. But the Slumbering Giant has awakened to see massive losses in Liberty and Freedom. The TEA Partiers, 912ers, Town Hall folks have awakened to the Left’s massive destruction of Personal Liberty and they will not go softly into that Good Night.
It would be foolish for the Democrats to depend wholly on SASA while Conservatives and Libertarians are out en masse reminding SASA about all the power-grabbing and corruption and all else. We are not quiet this time. And the Left depends on our being quiet to keep SASA uninformed.
No, Mike G, I’m predicting the GOP could win majority status in both Houses.