I’m sure most of you remember how our good friend Donviti was dismissed by his (now former) felows on the Delaware Liberal. It seems that Mr Viti was simply unwilling to toe the Democratic Party line, and, in that, he had made himself persona non grata on that fine website. (He does still comment there, though, oddly enough, while Mr Viti lists DL on his blogroll, the favor remains thus far unreturned.)
Mr Viti is somewhat displeased with President Obama’s decisions concerning the war in Afghanistan. Upon reading Mr Viti’s calmly stated objections 
I decided to check in with his former compatriots. Surely, I figured, I’d see just a scad of commentary on the commander-in-chief’s speech at the United States Military Academy.
Boy, was I wrong! I found three posts, only three, on the subject: 30K New Troops to Afghanistan by liberalgeek, and My Thoughts on Afghanistan and Set in Stone by Delaware Dem. All three articles are cautiously supportive, but what really caught my eye was that fact that most of the Delaware Liberals (Cassandra, El Somnambulo, Nemski, Pandora, Unstable Isotope and Xstryker) are treading lightly, barely, if at all, commenting. Only Jason330 has expressed any vocal opposition.
I find myself asking: what would their reaction have been had President Bush taken exactly the same decisions, and made the same speech, on December 1, 2007? C’mon, now, stop laughing; you know the answer!
Of course, ’tisn’t just our friends on the Delaware Liberal who are strangely quiet on probably the most important news subject of the past few weeks — perhaps second to the Tiger Woods story, of course — the Pandagonistae have been rather quiet as well: Pam Spaulding posted one article, which has drawn a whopping 26 comments in two days on a site which certainly dwarfs ours when it comes to readership and traffic, while Jesse Taylor LiveBlogged the speech, the liveblog of which isn’t accessible now but I don’t remember seeing much in it, and which now has seven whole comments.
Of course, that’s more than Jeromy Brown and Mike Ganzeveld have on the Iowa Liberal; there’s not a single article up on the subject on that fine site since this two sentence post a week before the President’s speech.
So, let’s be honest here: our friends on the left pretty much hated what the President decided and what he said, but many of them feel an obligation to just be quiet about it, bite their collective tongues, and hope, somehow, that he’s right.
Dude, I haven’t blogged about anything in the past day or so. We’re very sporadic bloggers, and anybody trying to make a point based on absence of blogging on our part is gonna have all the (non)material they’ll ever want. The post you linked to, however, has been somewhat active over the past two weeks, and that’s where I’ve put some of my thoughts on the issue. I’m still reading on the subject, absorbing the decision, and trying to see what this could possibly gain for us in two years. This is in contrast to Republicans, who know what to think as soon as they hear the word from Limbaugh, Cheney, Beck or Palin (though that’s not fair, as she doesn’t know what to think until she’s checked in with others).
Nov. 29th was the last normal post I wrote, btw. Got two rows of tabs ready to go when I feel I have something significant to say on the subject.
Mr Brown wrote:
How strange it is, then, that I managed to have an article up on the speech at 9:38 PM EST, before Messrs Limbaigh and Beck’s shows came on, before former Vice President Cheney had said a word, and before former Governor Palin expressed her opinion.
9:38 PM would have been less than an hour after the speech ended. Fourteen of our now 63 comments were posted — many by conservatives — before the Rush Limbaugh Show started the following day.
It currently shows ten comments in that two weeks, one of which was by me, and another being the trackback from this article.
that speech was Bush. Did anyone count how many times he mentioned AQ and Taliban. He equated the 2 over and over and over again. When they are not the same thing and one barely exists in Afghanistan and is now in Pakistan.
That speech was a joke and people defending more war lose more and more credibility as independent semi-intelligent thinkers.
I should note that I did hear a brief comment by Senator John McCain (R-AZ) on NBC, before I wrote the post. Guess that’s where I got my marching orders.
Dana, I have a post up on it – hey, a liberal blog with a readership of approximately 10 is better than none, right?
Of course, it basically says what I’ve been saying in the comments here, just more in depth…
[Link to Jeff's post added by DRP]
[...] like that to be the last word on anybody who attempts to throw rocks at us because we didn’t write about something. But last words are rare [...]
Dana: You had no idea what Cheney-ism would dictate after Obama’s speech? Of course you did. There’s talk of ending the war and growing up a little bit in our long-term perspective here. Afghanistan is the mountain that broke the USSR. We used that weapon in our fight against Communism.
Our original point was that fiscal conservatives, in that instance the Blue Dogs, talk a lot of big talk about spending when looking at a health care reform bill that is projected to cut the deficit by hundreds of billions. But when it comes to trying to turn Afghanistan into a liberal democracy, the credit card is whipped out and slapped on the table.
So you can criticize us for radio silence, but you actually chose to address our post. If you’re going to blog, you should do it methodically. Consider that our concern goes unanswered. Would you be happy if we kept repeating the question? How many times will it take for you to answer it?
Jeromy wrote:
Well, this certainly seems to set a new standard. I didn’t receive my marching orders from the former Vice President because I heard what he said, but because I had a good idea what he would say. Gosh, what a good blogger I is, to so anticipate my master’s orders!
Well, considering Obama’s approach had already leaked and Cheney had already commented on it, timeliness is not that of which you can brag, is it?
Lots and lots of vitriol at Crooks & Liars, and it started during the speech. That site has a tiny number of conservatives, lots of moderate to liberal Democrats, and quite a few libertarians.
Dimwitty may be an a-hole, but he’s an a-hole with balls, at least.
thanks pube. that means a lot coming from you a dick of your stature.
Speaking of silence, more crickets on the fiscal responsibility angle that was our original contention, no? If you addressed it in a new post, by all means…
As expected, there’s crickets chirping across the liberal blogs on Obama’s proactive stance in Afghanistan. With the few exceptions, (code pinkers and kool-aid drinkers), the left has taken a powder on Obama’s decision to extend the war on terrorism—oops, man-caused disasters. And Dana’s point is quite right. Had Bush made this bold move in 07, the media and the leftoid blogs would have been screaming to the rooftops.
But alas, as long as Obama’s willing to go to Copenhagen to continue Al Gores AGW hoax that will return this nation’s industrial growth back to the stone ages, it’s fine with them. Free healthcare, free education, free green jobs—all paid for by the middle class working taxpayers—are their priorities along with bringing down those greedy corporations.
There’ll be plenty of time later for our dear leftoids to point out atrocities and the brutal force on the ground against our sworn enemies. Jack Murtha and John, (ready to report for duty), Kerry still have their pulpits to degrade our military at a moments notice.
But instead of Dana’s “liberal friends” offering up an informed opinion on Obama’s “surge”, they resort to the Alinsky principal of ridiculing the poster with childish accusations, (waiting for marching orders).
Perhaps this is what the left is doing, (waiting for orders).
I’m jealous you are able to rise above the Alinksy principal. Bravo! I’m sure your heighness merely put words in quotes to make a point and not be a snarky sarcastic all knowing right wing talking point commenter.
I’m jealous I can’t be more “like” you. Wait….I just was. wooohooo
Snark and sarcasm not allowed in this forum? Check. No talking points that reveal the suicidal lunacy consuming this nation under the current “leadership”? Check.
If I’ve hit a condesending nerve, be sure to direct your hostilities my way at your next shrink’s appointment. We wouldn’t want those pent up “jealousy” and “highness” complexes to get out of hand. Oh, was that snark? Damn, there I go again—just can’t help it.
Dana better ban me for breaking these new PC guidelines set up by his loyal readership.
Rovin-
Powerful stuff. Way to add to the political discourse! I wish I could parrot Glen Beck too! Unfortunately I can no
I will address your brilliant prose and free you from the tyranny of these small minded attacks.
True enough. If Bush had not done Afghanistan war on the cheap maybe we would not be having this discussion. If maybe we spent time actually nation building there instead of crafting message and doing endless PR stunts (anyone still remember Tillman?) there might have been progress. And if we had not gone to Iraq in a misguided clusterfuck neo-imperialist profiteering war crime and spent 1/5 of the resources on any of the nation building in Afghanistan that was all rhetoric and no reality maybe we would not be having this discussion.
That rhetoric was all bullshit though, Afghanistan is an empty lot waiting for a pipeline, nothing more to us. It is a very interesting piece of strategic real estate considering the energy trade between Iran, Russia, and China and Russia’s near monopoly of gas delivery to Europe.
Everything Obama said was as much bullshit. He is representing the same interests as Bush.
I always love to hear people talk about Global Warming in terms like this. It sounds good and fits your ideology nicely, but have you looked at the reality of what is going on in the world? The nations that have adopted strong environmental reforms and adopted industrial policies that emphasize efficiencies (rather than tax breaks to oligarchic energy firms)have stable industrial bases and provide many of the services you ridicule to their citizens while managing their national budget. Go tell someone from Germany, France, the Netherlands, Sweeden, Norway or another country with successful export economies about it while the middle and working class get hollowed out and disenfranchised here.
I’ll go as far as to agree with you on the point that the global warming debate has been politicized on both sides – but what exactly was your point on the attack on corporations? Exactly what special interest has Obama not been beholden to? Do you just mimic talking points or have you thought about any of this?
There’ll be plenty of time later for our dear leftoids to point out atrocities and the brutal force on the ground against our sworn enemies. Jack Murtha and John, (ready to report for duty), Kerry still have their pulpits to degrade our military at a moments notice.
But instead of Dana’s “liberal friends” offering up an informed opinion on Obama’s “surge”, they resort to the Alinsky principal of ridiculing the poster with childish accusations, (waiting for marching orders).
Perhaps this is what the left is doing, (waiting for orders).
Rovin, here’s over 400 crickets: http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/afghanistan-speech-open-thread
Here’s a specific example of what a cricket sounds like: “Shorter Obama: “What Bush said…. Oh, and f___ you.”
And yes, coward, you did make this decision lightly. You simply did the math, decided it profited your new friends, and threw 30,000 troops into the quest for profit.
Shame.”
Many liberals are upset and not hiding it.
Promoting a kid’s Christmas program this mornin’—have to get back later with some reality for my misguided liberal friends—it’s called a priority.
Who’s Glen Beck?
It’s all over the internet, the disgust for the war escalation. The Lib side, aghast at the African American version of Bush, in a more eloquent, yet equally, a puppet of the defense industry. Here’s an articulate example of that disgust. His numbers in the polls will be mud soon:
http://chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/1883-savvy-to-a-fault-coming-to-terms-with-imperial-power.html
Maybe this will peak your interest, to read the article from above link, by just reading some of it.
Savvy to a Fault: Coming to Terms With Imperial Power
Written by Chris Floyd
Thursday, 03 December 2009 17:17
“How does it become a man to behave toward this American government to-day? I answer that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it.” — Henry David Thoreau
To me, this quote from Thoreau expresses the only rational, moral and humane stance that a citizen can take toward the vast and brutal machinery of the American imperial state in our time. The crimes of this state are monstrous, and mounting. But what is worse is that these crimes are not aberrations; they are the very essence of the system — they are its goal, its product, its lifeblood.
And what is this crimeful essence? Matt Taibbi described it well in a recent article:
Our Western society quite openly embraces war as a means of solving problems, and for quite some time now has fashioned its entire social and economic structure around the preparation for war.
I believe this is an indisputable fact. Decades of historical evidence give it proof. The last three decades especially have seen the relentless acceleration of this systemic evolution. The quality of life for ordinary Americans, those outside the golden circle of the elite and their retainers, has decayed immeasurably – and measurably. Stagnant wages. Degraded infrastructure. A poisoned food chain. Whole communities — with all their social, political, cultural and family networks — gutted by the heedless flight of capital to cheap labor (and slave labor) markets abroad, and by the dissolution of an embodied economic life into the shadow-play of high finance, the ghostly manipulation of numbers that produces nothing of value except gargantuan profits for a very few. A bonfire of public amenities, making daily life harder, harsher, constricted, diminished. Ever-growing social and economic disparity, shrinking the circle of opportunity. Two million citizens behind bars, in prisons overflowing with non-violent drug cases – nightmarish institutions given over to gangs, neglect, punitive regimens and private profit.
Yet this long, grinding process of diminishment and degradation has been accompanied by a never-ending expansion of the war machine into a dominant position over almost every aspect of American life. Not even the ending of the Cold War slowed this excrescence; defense budgets grew, new enemies were found, there were new missions, new commands, new wars. The ruling elite of American society were – and are – obviously willing to let the welfare, prosperity, opportunities and liberties of the common people sink deeper and deeper into the mire, in order to finance a system structured around war, with all the attendant corruption, brutalization and accrual of authoritarian power that war brings.
This is the system we have. It’s right out in the open. There is a deep-rooted expectation – and not, alas, just among the elite — that the world should jump to America’s tune, by force if necessary. And when, for whatever reason, some part of the world does not jump – or bump and grind – to the Potomac beat, then it becomes a “problem” that must be “solved,” by one means or another, with, of course, “all options on the table,” all the time. And whether these “problems” are approached with blunt, bullying talk or a degree of cajolery and pious rhetoric, the chosen stance is always backed up with the ever-present threat of military action, up to and including the last of those “options” that always decorate the table: utter annihilation.
This is not even questioned, must less debated or challenged. America’s right to intervene in the affairs other nations by violent force (along with a constant series of illegal covert activities) – and to impose an empire of military plantations across the length and breadth of the entire planet – is the basic assumption, the underlying principle, the fervently held faith shared by both national parties, and the entire elite Establishment. And if you want to have the necessary instruments to maintain such a state of hegemony, then you must indeed structure your society and economy around war.
Many nations – all vanished now – have done this. The Roman Empire was one. Nazi Germany was another. At great cost to the economic, social and political life of ordinary Germans, Adolf Hitler geared the state to produce the war machine necessary to assert the dominance in world affairs which he felt was Germany’s natural right. One of his chief aims was to procure enough “living space” and natural resources in Eastern Europe to compete with America’s growing economic might. The Holocaust of European Jews was, for all its horror, just a preliminary to the greater “ethnic cleansing” to come. As historian Adam Tooze reminds us in The Wages of Destruction, the Nazis had drawn up detailed plans for the extermination – by active mass murder and deliberate starvation – of up to 40 million East Europeans.
So, who here has the guts to look a little closer at what’s going on over there?
http://bravenewfilms.org/videos/rethinkafghanistan/
Rovin,
Glen Beck is a goofy fat guy on TV who gets excited and somewhat preachy when he’s exposing Democrat corruption and malfeasance. Beck has a great smile, he grins a lot, but he also seems to get carried away with righteous indignation and he’s always warning that Obama’s crooks and communist associates are up to no good.
Beck often reveals information damaging to the Obama cabal, ACORN, SEIU, New Black Panthers, and George Soros fronts, and that drives moonbats crazy with envy, and outrage. Cockroaches like to do their dirty work when no one is looking, or when the lights are out.
Beck is also influential in the Tea Party Movement as well, and since SEIU thugs have been designated to teach senior citizens a lesson in political expediency, shout them down or beat them up, the Purple Gang is out to put a serious hurt on Beck if they can get away with it.
PS: For some inexplicable reason hot hippie chicks are always following Beck around and offering to wash his car.
It’s a mystery to me.
Rope enlightened us:
Well, that’s ’cause Tiger Woods’ car needs more than washing now!
That is easy – must be holding some quality narcotics.
why does he have more comments the posts he was writing from!?