Dear President Obama

Unlike you, I respect the Office of the President of the United States.
Unlike you, I value the Oath of Office of the President, the Vice President, the cabinet and Congress above a single person.
Unlike you, I value the Military Oath above a single person.
Unlike you, I value the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

You have lied and broken laws every step of your way to your current position.
You lied when you took your Oath of Office as US Senator.
You lied when you took your Oath of Office as President of the United States.

Your myriad czars are an intentional end-run around the Constitution, and a violation of the Constitution.
Your turning on its head the bankruptcy laws to take control of US car-makers and give the union money and power, despite bankruptcy laws, is a violation of the Constitution.
Your faux stimulus bill is a violation of the Constitution.
Your attempt to nationalize the health insurance industry is a violation of the Constitution.
Your desire to have the ability to shut down portions of the internet on wholly fictitious grounds is a violation of the Constitution.

You have sided with dictators and would-be dictators trying to subvert their own Constitutions.
You have abandoned true democracies the world round.
You have tossed previously oppressed peoples aside, to likely become re-oppressed and mass-murdered.

You surround yourself with unrepentant terrorists, and more than one.
You surround yourself with rabid racists.
You surround yourself with self-proclaimed socialists and communists.
You surround yourself with sexual deviants.
You surround yourself with criminal entities.

You are unfit to be the President of the United States of America, heretofore the greatest, most free nation in the world. And, day by day, more people are realizing this.

I hope and pray we can fix Congress before you do irreparable harm to the greatest, most free nation in the world.
I hope and pray we can throw you out of office before you can do irreparable harm to the greatest, most free nation in the world.

Dear President Obama, you are unfit to be the dog-poop extractor in a small town dog pound. And the sooner you pound sand, the better for this great country.
______________________________
Cross Posted on Truth Before Dishonor

297 Comments

  1. Yorkshire, if what I said is not obvious, anything I say won’t influence you radicals. So what’s the use?

  2. Perry, Amanda Marcotte’s comment here is appropriate:

    Part of it is willingness to believe, I’m sure. But honestly, another part of all this is how sheltered people are. I think TV has an undue influence on what you imagine the world to be like if you don’t see a lot of the world. And frankly, the conservative movement seems above all other things to be a product of large numbers of Americans isolating themselves from reality and retreating into little bubbles. White flight is the main culprit—the explosion of exurbs has created this entire other America that is isolated from reality. I’m currently reading Rich Benjamin’s marvelously cheeky book Searching for Whitopia, and the one thing that comes up again and again is how allergic the residents of what he deems Whitopia are to reality. He describes their existence as much like those Russian nesting dolls. They escape not just the cities but the suburbs to live in a community that’s main value is that you don’t face much in the way of challenges from reality. And then you move into a gated community, and inside your gated community is your giant house that isolates you from the neighbors and likely has a super high tech security system to protect your from the imaginary criminals. Indeed, their commitment to living in a fantasy world is such that Benjamin goes house-hunting, and discovers that a charming house with an official historical landmark designation languishes on the market while ugly monstrosities that reference certain architectural traditions in a way that’s almost deliberately cheesy and fake get snatched up. The tacky wins hands down every time. Too much reality is unsettling.

    And so the residents of these fantasy bubble worlds get most of their information about how the world works from TV. They get it from fictional shows that aren’t trying to reflect reality at all, and they get it from Fox News, which deliberately distorts reality. They have no reality-based reference point to check their assumptions against.

    John is isolated by his own fears and neuroses from any ability to actually understand reality. He’s drunk the wingnut Kool-Aid.

  3. Perry:
    Yorkshire, if what I said is not obvious, anything I say won’t influence you radicals. So what’s the use?

    Where have I seen this in action before?

  4. Sometimes you guys kill me. John Hitchcock writes an open letter to President Obama and immediately he’s hateful. Okay, perhaps the letter was a little rough around the edges but John does not claim to be Shakespere.

    Then in come the inferences that he’s neurotic(not of sound mind), in a bubble (not based in reality), an angry white man (repeated in video link), drinking Kool-Aide (just a thoughtless follower) and one who is isolated from society.

    Is there no realm of posibility that he has any valid points in his letter? Is it not perhaps an option he dosen’t like the direction our govmint is headed and is fearful of too much govmint control over areas that should be under the control of the individual? Buy the way you guys on the left, when IS there too much govmint control? Is there ever a limit?

    The govmint has or is in the process of taking over:
    Banking
    the mortgage market
    the auto industry
    partnering with unions
    the health care industry

    I could go on but nuff said. My point is the Hitchcock sees a pattern that he does not like. He voices it and you guys attack his motives and mental health. Holy crap. If you don’t like his message then rip it apart but you needn’t call the messenger nuts.

  5. Remember them good old days of 2001-2008, when “not supporting the president during wartime” was sedition & “giving the president’s plan a chance to work” was the only honorable thing to do? You guys kill me. You have all the ethical consistency of your arch-rival WJ Clinton. No wonder you’re obsessed with him: you’re his twins.

  6. The only person obessed with WJ Clinton is…WJ Clinton. But thanks for finally agreeing he has no ethics.

  7. John Hitchcock: “If you want proof of neuroses and hate, check out this video.”

    It is very clear to me, John, that you are trying to justify your current extremism by pointing to some extremism in the recent past. That is no justification! We must deal with what we see right now.

    And you, John, by your opening letter, have well demonstrated where you are, without my saying one more word about your radical rhetoric.

  8. JohnC: “Sometimes you guys kill me. John Hitchcock writes an open letter to President Obama and immediately he’s hateful.”

    So it’s not obvious to you, is that so John?

    And you seem unaware of what has dumped our economy, because you are calling for retrenchment to more of the same. You have made no case for that.

    The DJ is up 60% since March. I wonder why?

  9. The govmint has or is in the process of taking over:
    Banking
    the mortgage market
    the auto industry
    partnering with unions
    the health care industry

    Pop quiz!

    Q: What do all of the above programs have in common?

    A: All were initiated by George W. Bush but only became “socialism” when a Democrat was elected president.

    John Hitchcock: “If you want proof of neuroses and hate, check out this video.”

    Ah, the “but he did it too!!!!” defense. It’s amusing how the previously reviled actions of the left-wing are now the standards of behavior for the Glenn Beck crowd.

  10. How many times must conservatives say GWB was not a conservative before liberals realize GWB was not a conservative? And my link was not “tu quoque” but pointing out true neuroses and hate so liberals can see the difference.

  11. The only person obessed with WJ Clinton is…WJ Clinton. But thanks for finally agreeing he has no ethics.

    kindly produce evidence of me ever being a WJC booster or STFU. the difference between me and you is I have values; you have none. yours are “when my party does it, it’s patriotic; when the other party does it, it’s shameful.” truly pathetic!

  12. John Hitchcock, you owe us no explanation. It is clear where you stand from your opening piece. You need say no more, except maybe to retract your piece so you can take some time to rethink your positions.

    My only hope is that there are not many others out there like you and people like you, assuming there may be some others, that you never acquire power in our country. I don’t think you will, as most Americans seem to have a lot more common sense than to allow extremists like you to take control.

  13. How many times must conservatives say GWB was not a conservative before liberals realize GWB was not a conservative?

    Apart from, you know, being a conservative hero when he was in power and you could fool yourselves into thinking his policies weren’t disasterous?

    So tell us, John – where’s your evidence of the first time “conservatives” on this blog started disavowing Bush?

  14. How many times must conservatives say GWB was not a conservative before liberals realize GWB was not a conservative? And my link was not “tu quoque” but pointing out true neuroses and hate so liberals can see the difference.

    Oh, John, had you actually voiced these concerns when GWB was actually in office you may have a shred of credibility. You should have thought about that when you spent all of those years lambasting others for not showing sufficient enough subservience to Dear Leader.

  15. mike g, I did speak out against GWB’s economy-busting actions while he was President. I just hadn’t found blogging yet. And that “subservience” line does not fit.

  16. In all honesty, this letter of JH’s could more appropriately and accurately address G.W.Bush. However, the continuation of Bush policies by Obama gives it some credence.

    Did any of you on the Right show an iota of incredulity when Bush started blowing huge gaping holes through our revered documents, the Constitution, and Bill of Rights? You defend the lame reasoning of torture, for God’s sake.

    Also, you all scream “Commie” when an attempt to save people’s lives through a health care reform (resulting in nothing compared to what was needed, since greedy health insurance companies caused an ungodly stink, and you all regurgitated on cue the same). So, Obama tries to save lives, and Bush lies to start a war resulting in hundreds of thousands of soldiers, men, women and children, elderly, slaughtered, with the acquisition of resources. You’re okay with that. The word OBLIVION is insufficient, when seeing this composition (compost pile) of John Hitchcock’s.

    What this shows from John Hitchcock is an astonishing ignorance, and bias, reality obscured by party loyalty, at the detriment of humanity.

  17. John C writes:

    The only person obessed with WJ Clinton is…WJ Clinton.

    emphasis added

    Little Tommy Tallis puffs out his pigeon breast and retorts:

    “kindly produce evidence of me ever being a WJC booster or STFU.”

    Tommy is having an identity crisis.

  18. mike g, I did speak out against GWB’s economy-busting actions while he was President. I just hadn’t found blogging yet.

    Well, how convenient for you. But surely you could have joined those raucous tea-party protesters marching against George W. Bush’s TARP program and AIG purchase, right?

    And that “subservience” line does not fit.

    How about fealty? Does that work better?

    Long story short, JH, you “conservatives” blew all of your credibility over the last year and to make things even more insulting you’re expecting all of us to forget that it never happened.

    Isn’t that the new Republican Party slogan? “The Republican Party – We’re for small government. (This time we mean it!!)”

  19. “John Hitchcock, you owe us no explanation. It is clear where you stand from your opening piece. You need say no more, except maybe to retract your piece so you can take some time to rethink your positions.

    My only hope is that there are not many others out there like you and people like you, assuming there may be some others, that you never acquire power in our country. I don’t think you will, as most Americans seem to have a lot more common sense than to allow extremists like you to take control.”

    Yeah, those extremists. I remember them …

    Simple Gifts

    Gentle Persuasion

    All praise and glory to your name

    The One, the Good, the True and the Beautiful: In praise of Obama

    By the way, anyone see that shambling fleshbag Michael Moore on Nightline, claiming to be a Christian?

    See, he’s a disciple of Christ, not because he gives all his money away and seeks to be perfect, but because, unlike others, he doesn’t boast of his overconsumption. Though he’s living proof of it …

    Anyway, that is how he knows he’s a true Christian … gluttony and hypocrisy, aside.

  20. Ladies, ladies, ladies. When you are finished calling every conservative on this blog names and having GWB hissy-fits, will someone please tell me when govmint finally has too much power and control? Or has govmint replaced God and should have the power to control the universe?

  21. JohnC wrote:

    “Ladies, ladies, ladies. When you are finished calling every conservative on this blog names and having GWB hissy-fits …please tell me when govmint finally has too much power and control?”

    They probably won’t tell you.

    But I will tell you what I learned through long conversations with people almost just like them; but who were a little more open about their welfare state agenda and ultimate goal of socialism.

    The answer is, “never”.

    In response to the question: What limits are socialists willing to recognize, in terms of political and geographic sway?

    I received the answer: Socialism is an all-society proposition. There is no opting out in terms of producing (or being allowed to produce) for economic exchange.

    What exactly is meant by “society” as socialists use the term?

    Answer: Your society, i.e., the scope of your continuing associative obligations, includes anyone or any group of people with whom you have, or have had, or might have, an exchange relationship of some kind. (Buy a sheet of Brazilian veneer, and you own Brazil and Brazil owns you.)

    When is enough, enough? … At what point will socialist goals be satisfied, and the socialist program of “redistributive justice” and collective economic controls end?

    Answers: “Never” and “It doesn’t”.

    So, you get to wear their stinking carcasses chained around your neck forever John.

    If they get their way, that is.

  22. Holy crap DNW. My wife is South Korean and when I hit your link to Songun she flew down to the family room screaming her lungs out to turn off “That Shit”. Must keep volume lower in the future.

  23. Of course it’s completely fine for a Republican politician to require the signing of a “loyalty oath” in order to hear him speak.

    http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/article_5113bba2-bb5b-5dbb-be7d-f0d2e5946a32.html

    http://www.slate.com/id/2108852/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalty_oath#Recent_Uses

    You see folks, just like socialism, it’s perfectly acceptable when the beneficiaries are Republicans. But that’s how the right-wing’s brand of tyranny has always worked; Goldman Sachs CEOs get the Nanny State while the peasants get to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and learn a little self sufficiency. The ultimate con is getting the rubes to believe in things like denying AIG execs taxpayer funded bonuses is socialism.

    But I will tell you what I learned through long conversations with people almost just like them

    Kinda like you’re almost just convincing when expect people to believe in your sincerity.

  24. emphasis added

    Little Tommy Tallis puffs out his pigeon breast and retorts:

    “kindly produce evidence of me ever being a WJC booster or STFU.”

    Tommy is having an identity crisis.

    shorter DNW: “I, DNW, have nothing. Bupkus. I will therefore result to insults, because I am speaking from a position of profound ignorance.”

  25. So, you get to wear their stinking carcasses chained around your neck forever John.

    If they get their way, that is.

    Unless, of course, we’re talking about Goldman Sachs or Citibank. In those cases we should be thanking them for the opportunity!

  26. “I, DNW, have nothing. Bupkus.

    What “tipped” you “off”? Was it his hypothetical conversations with “socialists”? Or was it his “umpteenth”, tin-eared “screed” directed at phantom “nemeses”?

    DNW knows of two types of economic systems. One involves government largesse being bestowed upon parties that he deems worthy. The other involves government money going to parties he feels are unworthy. The first he calls capitalism. The second he calls socialism.

  27. Thomas Tallis, I think the insults on this thread have been coming from your team not DNW’s, don’t you?

    And still no lefty can say when we’ve given up enough control to the govmint. At least blubonnet is honest enough to admit she feels fine with the govmint stealing my money to buy her health care. How about to buy her food? How bout they steal Perry’s money to pay my mortgage? Or all our money to give it to Goldman Sach’s or Citibank? If you believe from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs, what are you?

  28. Or all our money to give it to Goldman Sach’s or Citibank?

    Plenty of people were very vocal about bailing out Goldman Sach’s and Citibank. I believe at the time they were called “socialists” by Republicans because they didn’t understand the wisdom in giving them millions in bonuses using tax payer money.

  29. DNW: “If they get their way, that is.”

    You didn’t make it this time, DNW, because your brand of socialism for the capitalists has become unsustainable, and the people know it, and are suffering as a result, while their sons and daughters fight your wars in hopes of making a future for themselves. This is not the country that I want us to be.

  30. “DNW knows of two types of economic systems. One involves government largesse being bestowed upon parties that he deems worthy. The other involves government money going to parties he feels are unworthy. The first he calls capitalism. The second he calls socialism.”

    mike g, in the words of Joe Wilson, You Lie!
    I’ve only been at CSPT since the end of last year but I have never read DNW espousing any type of govmint largess to anyone or any company. If you have print it here and now and I will appologise, or retract your lie.

  31. mike g, in the words of Joe Wilson, You Lie!
    I’ve only been at CSPT since the end of last year but I have never read DNW espousing any type of govmint largess to anyone or any company. If you have print it here and now and I will appologise, or retract your lie.

    Have you ever read anything written by him that differs from my description? Show me a passage of his that is critical of George W. Bush’s TARP plan or buyout of AIG or GM. Has he ever mentioned the billions siphoned off by Blackwater or KBR? Do you honestly believe that he’s talking about Ken Lewis or Lloyd Blankfein in his numerous screeds against welfare cretins? Where do you think all of that bile is aimed at?

  32. “while their sons and daughters fight your wars” quote Perry.

    “Your wars”? Do you actually believe DNW and not the Congress and President of the US decided to go to war? It’s OUR wars fool, because once we are in it we are in it as a nation. You disrespect American troops with that drivel. And if this is not the country you want us to be which is? France, Cuba, North Korea? They all have national health care if that’s what’s buggin you. Of course Cuba and NK are more like end of life counceling on a all-through-your-life basis.

  33. “Where do you think all of that bile is aimed at?”

    I don’t know so why don’t you ask him. All I know is he does not seem to me to be for largesse at any level.

  34. 30+ name callings, and no serious debate on what John wrote. But the lefties have written it off anyway. So, John, interesting letter. Maybe it can go to that Kindergarten in Burlington , NJ and see if it would be read after the children stop singing about our Dear Leader.

    Wasn’t this picture shown in the 30′s somewhere east of here????

  35. Well, I can digress a little and admit that my rhetoric gets a little heated. And while anonymity does seem to encourage a certain level callousness on both sides I have to say that I find the possibility of reasoned debate unlikely when you have one side that insists on calling the other Nazis and Commies at every opportunity.

  36. From the open letter:
    Your turning on its head the bankruptcy laws to take control of US car-makers and give the union money and power, despite bankruptcy laws, is a violation of the Constitution.

    The secured creditors who have the first place in line were just swept aside without a wimper and the Union took their place. Aren’t there a few banking and securities law broken there? Or since The One did it, is it OK??????

  37. And still no lefty can say when we’ve given up enough control to the govmint

    When you can show that less government control would work better.

    In the case of health care and the collapse of insufficiently regulated financial institutions, you have a problem. If it was just the Right, we’d let you rot in your Libertopia, but, alas, your stupidity will drag the rest of us down with you.

  38. “And still no lefty can say when we’ve given up enough control to the govmint

    When you can show that less government control would work better.”

    Then you propose a police state? With you in charge, no doubt.
    It’s amazing how after 200+ years of America proving that freedom lifts more people out of poverty, ignorance and opression than any nation in history guys like Pho still live in a failed statist dream world. Never enough power, always too much freedom for us stupid people.

    DNW you’re correct. With these guys there is never an end to opression and state power. People’s freedom just don’t count.

  39. Phoenician in a time of Romans:
    And still no lefty can say when we’ve given up enough control to the govmint

    When you can show that less government control would work better.

    As a Republic, the USA has been around with a successive form of Government since 1787. It was founded on less government. The Soviet Union which was founded in 1917 on a Communist Control of daily life with central planning and the idea gummint knew it all. That idea died in the 1980′s. Didn’t last 75 years. Does that give you any hint at all? Probably not.

  40. The origins, founding principles of this country was that of countering an oligarchy, York, but in this day and age, it’s back. More and more power is given over to the corporations that have bought up our government, our media, and Republicans’ minds, AND alot of Dems as well. We have very little power now.

    Joe Wilson, for example has been bought by the health insurance companies. So, despite South Carolina’s misfortune, he wouldn’t vote for their needs.

    Hell, you probably think that the war was to protect us, to “protect our freedoms” as Bush crushed more and more democratic principles our country was founded on. Then Obama hasn’t done much about it. Shame on him too.

    Why are you up in arms about things like health care for all (as is the case in the civilized world of all other industrialized nations), but things like torture, invasion of a nation posing no threat, lies preceding it, controlling media, arresting people for protesting, putting what are literally cages around protesters, outing a CIA agent, and lying to the Congress, stealing of the presidency (thoroughly PROVEN) and lying to the public, and lying to our military, and slaughtering hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings, you don’t have a problem with that???

    Are you guys really that whacked out? OMG, you are!

  41. The Roman Empire existed for centuries. Is that a justifiable argument for slavery?

    There were rising standards of living under Stalin. Is that a justification for Stalinism?

    Come on guys.

    And I wouldn’t necessarily go and call the cancerous Soviet Union “communist”. If you were familiar with Russian history you’d know that one the first thing the Bolsheviks did when they came to power is smash the soviets and the workers unions and hang their democratically elected leaders. The Leninists quickly replaced them with an oppressive military bureaucratic elite and those that opposed them were tried for treason.

  42. And still no lefty can say when we’ve given up enough control to the govmint.

    probably when they start tapping people’s phones without a court order – that seems like a good yardstick for when the government is out of control

  43. I suppose I should have indicated as such but that comment above was directed at Yorkshire and to a lesser extent JohnC.

    I’d also suggest to JohnC. to rethink his feelings about “statism”. Yes, statism is a common feature of oppressive regimes but rarely is it unique to either the right or left. The most recent expression of reactionary statism that I can think of is the right wing’s obsession not long ago with “anti-Americanism”. That’s a page right out of the totalitarian handbook.

  44. probably when they start tapping people’s phones without a court order – that seems like a good yardstick for when the government is out of control

    I would have thought that the government being able to arrest any citizen without probable cause and deny them the right to do process would also be a good yardstick but I guess I was wrong.

    unless a Republican orders it, then it’s FOR FREEDOM

    Exactly, and if you don’t agree with it then you’re an anti-American traitor.

  45. JohnC: “DNW you’re correct. With these guys there is never an end to opression and state power. People’s freedom just don’t count.”

    That’s BS, John, totally!

    Give me five examples of oppression.

    Give me just one quote where someone has said that “freedom just does not count”.

    JohnC: “You disrespect American troops with that drivel.”

    No, John, on this issue of the Iraq War I disrespect you and all like you for the lies that got us into this war of choice. Don’t you dare tell me I disrespect our troops, because you are wrong. I consider them to be victims of you war mongers! But they have served our country exceptionally well under these terrible circumstances created by you and yours. I will not take responsibility, because I have been an activist against this war since the build-up started in the summer of 2002, unless perhaps I could have been even more active.

  46. Mike g, I used the term statism because I was trying not to pigeonhole anybody. We’ve got the “Dems are commies” crowd and the “Repubs are bought by the corporations” crowd. I was rying to get someone to say they were actually for freedom first, constitutional regulation second and personal responsability for everything else. I fell short on that goal.

    I just can’t seem to get any of you guys on the left to say that at any time we must be responsable for ourselves. It seems to always fall back to the govmint to do things we should be doing for ourselves.

    It scares me that Americans so willingly surrender their liberty to nameless bureaucrats and believe they will make better decisions than the individual.

  47. Perry said:
    “Give me just one quote where someone has said that “freedom just does not count”.”

    Now you know I can’t give you a quote that you made up from my own opinion. You also know that anyone who is trying to gin power dosen’t come out and say that sort of thing. What they do is pass the McCain/Feingold Act, of the Fairness Doctrine. Or maybe try to “bail out” favorable newspaper. Or give gobs of our money to AIG. They may even try to by the votes of non-taxpayers with rebates or Earned Tax credits, SCHIP or even a prescription drug plan. Hell, I don’t know how they do it but I guarantee they don’t say “freedom just does not count”.

  48. We’ve got the “Dems are commies” crowd and the “Repubs are bought by the corporations” crowd.

    Both parties are deplorable. We just gotta keep the pressure up on them to act honorable if not for at least some of the time.

    Personally, I’m rather suspect of people who say they want to “lead” people. And I’m not talking about firemen who want to be the best for their local pump house. I’m talking about people who want to get into politics so that they can be the center of attention and people will look to them for their sage advice and they can develop some cult of personality that they can cash in on. I don’t particularly feel that I need to be lead by anyone nor do I understand why in a democracy somebody would think that was a good idea. So I think everyone should be suspicious of people with political ambitions to begin with. Just my opinion, of course, but I think that a lot of these people have a pathological weakness that make them susceptible to flattery.

  49. Perry, I’m not trying to get in your face but neither I nor all like me lied to you. I don’t even know you. If you believe GWB and the international inteligence community lied to ALL OF US, I don’t agree. I think they erred but I don’t believe they lied. Just like now I believe the govmint is wrong on their assessment of costs on Cap & Trade and HealthCare. I don’t think they are lying. Just dead wrong.

  50. mike g:
    The Roman Empire existed for centuries. Is that a justifiable argument for slavery?

    There were rising standards of living under Stalin. Is that a justification for Stalinism?

    Come on guys.

    And I wouldn’t necessarily go and call the cancerous Soviet Union “communist”. If you were familiar with Russian history you’d know that one the first thing the Bolsheviks did when they came to power is smash the soviets and the workers unions and hang their democratically elected leaders. The Leninists quickly replaced them with an oppressive military bureaucratic elite and those that opposed them were tried for treason.

    By golly, a discussion 95% on its way. As for current governments, the USA is the longest running show in town at the moment in some similar shape it was founded in 1787. Everything since then has changed many different times across the world. Europe has changed governments and boundaries since 1787. The middle east is a figment of an imagination that has nothing to do with reality. South America and Africa have moved things drastically, and Asia through off colonialism in the mid 20th century.

    But, my overall opinion in governments is the less government, the more freedom of opportunity. The more Government, the less chance of expressing oneself. Even take Great Britian up to 60 years ago aristocracy opened and shut doors. India still has remnants of the caste system. And from what I gathered from HS Students I’ve talked to through the AFS exchange program, the schools in Europe determine your curriculum track, not necessarily you.

    The other thing that makes the USA unique is we do not have a millenia old civilization. Whereas Europe and Asia, and the Muddled East have done what they have done for centuries. The USA on the other hand, brought the best and worst here, and invented a new country. If you look at South and Central America, they brought the Iberian Peninsula system with them, and that system was in some ways isolated from Europe by a natural barrier, the Pyrrenies.

  51. I’ll go ya one further, Yorkshire. I believe we have quite a unique little experiment in human freedom goin on here. Our Founding Fathers, learning from and building on the political and social structures of Western Civilization, attempted to take the best and discard the worse of the same. Then they took a little classical liberalism, mixed it with the Enlightenment, sprinkled it with Christian values (I know some of you hate for anyone to use that phrase) and Voila! American Republic.

    I’m the first to say America and Americans are not, never have been and never will be perfect. But we do try to correct our faults, Bless us. I believe that as long as we address those faults through the prism of liberty we will always endure. But, if we begin to believe the only way to “fix things” is through govmint I believe we will loose, and deserve to loose our republic. Lberty is a constant struggle and even when we think we can’t do it without some big program we are screwed. We can do it because we rely on….US.

  52. Perry said:
    “Give me just one quote where someone has said that “freedom just does not count”.”

    “It should be clear by now that my focus here is not freedom of speech or the press. This freedom is all too often an exaggeration. At the very least, blind references to freedom of speech or the press serve as a distraction from the critical examination of other communications policies.

    “[T]he purpose of free speech is warped to protect global corporations and block rules that would promote democratic governance.”

    Mark Lloyd is the Federal Communications Commission (FCC)’s Chief Diversity Officer, a.k.a. the Diversity Czar.

    A government official saying freedom of speech, freedom of the press — not so much. Is that a quote saying freedom doesn’t count?

  53. I think he meant Democratic governance not democratic governance, since we have a republican not Republican system.

    (This is meant as a joke, don’t go crazy)

  54. Mark Lloyd went further. He said white people need to step down and get out of the way so non-white people can get those positions of power. It’s in the link. And this:

    What we’re really saying is that the Fairness Doctrine’s not enough. And that having a sort of over-arching rule that says broadcasters ought to be “fair” or ought to provide issues important to communities and that they ought to do it in a fair and balanced way is simply enough. Unless you put some teeth into that and put some hard, structural rules in place that are going to result in fairness.

    And the clincher:

    There are few things I think more frightening in the American mind than dark skinned black men. Here I am.

    Anti-First Amendment and very racist. And FCC Diversity Czar in the Obama administration.

  55. Those in power, mostly corporatists foul up America’s freedoms. For one, wages that prohibit one to go to the doctor or pay for health care screws with our freedoms. Who has freedom in those cases? Corporate fat cats. Freedom to keep the wages low (under Republican control).

    Those in power, mostly corporatists, foul up America’s freedoms. Another case, Sending jobs overseas since hiring yonder is dirt cheap for the corporations. Who has freedom? Corporate fat cats. The rest of us lose our jobs, and can’t afford health care.

    Those in power screw with America’s freedoms. Another case, The corporate fat cats pay Congress to eliminate any interferences like keeping pollution under control so many are not becoming sick and are unable to be productive citizens, providing the other points I’ve mentioned don’t get in the way. Who has freedoms? Corporate fat cats!

    Corporate mafiosos screw our rights, how? Well, it just so happens that those that were in power in the past administration, not only were part of the oil company, they were also part of the defense industry, but OFFENSE is the correct word, because that is what happened, and that is why hundreds of thousands of innocnet human beings, our soldiers victims as well, are now DEAD, or missing precious body parts, blinded, crippled, disfigured, castrated, had their faces blown partly off, paralyzed, and I could go on. Not to mention CHILDREN that are LONG OUT OF THE WOMB!!! Thanks for supporting that, you deaf, dumb and blind partiers. That’s what you do. You are party loyalists, with the Republican party, you might as well be forever drunk, like a party animal. Because you vote, it is dangerous.

    JIM HIGHTOWER SAID: “THE CORPORATIONS DON’T HAVE TO LOBBY OUR GOVERNMENT ANYMORE. THEY ARE OUR GOVERNMENT.” That was in the Bush era.

    The definition of fascism is the conjoining of corporate power with government!

    Need I remind you what warning Eisenhower gave regarding the dangers of the INFLUENCE of the military industrial complex? Well, owning the government, the media, and the presidency (last administration) for some reason didn’t phase you Roboticans. God forbid, we get health care like the rest of the civilized world. Chumps! Dangerous chumps, in that you vote ignorantly. Your ignorance just becomes more and more glaring!

  56. Blu, have you read the book you told everyone on here to read? You know? That book written by a liberal woman detailing her time in Iraq in the US Army? The one you told us all to read? “Love My Rifle More Than You” Have you read that book yet?

  57. John Hitchcock, you dare say a guy promotes homosexuality, or your article did. ONE CANNOT PROMOTE GAYNESS. It is there or it is not. The fellow you are speaking of admonishingly (or the article is saying it) the fellow in the school being mentioned is merely speaking respectfully of gays, teaching respect for them to students, instead of hate. SUGGESTING THAT HATING THEM IS A BAD THING TO DO. DO YOU EVEN GIVE A DAMN THAT THESE POOR KIDS THAT ARE GAY, BY THE DISRESPECT BY YOU AND YOURS IS CAUSING VERY HIGH SUICIDE RATES AMONG THEM? I’M SURE YOU DON’T GIVE A RAT’S ASS. LIKE THE INNOCENT MUSLIMS IN THE WAY OF OUR WAR, “THEY ARE NOT REALLY HUMAN BEINGS”. IT WAS GOD’S IDEA THESE KIDS ARE GAY, NOT THEIR IDEA. OTHERWISE, AFTER THE CRAP YOU “CHRISTIANS” PUT ON THEM, SUICIDE IS A CHOICE THEY DO MAKE. YOU, MALEVOLENT SELF RIGHTEOUS BASTARDS!

  58. I’ll help you out, blu, and use one of your favorite lines, paraphrased because I cannot remember exactly how you write it.

    Or are you too cowardly to read it?

    And I’ll add PIATOR’s favorite word, edited for singularity since he uses the plural form.

    Idiot.

  59. Blu, you are the one who first brought up that book. It is “your” book in that sense. YOU are the one who told everyone to read it. And you brought the subject up in your post directly above my query. Ergo, I did not change the subject of your comment.

  60. ““It should be clear by now that my focus here is not freedom of speech or the press. This freedom is all too often an exaggeration. At the very least, blind references to freedom of speech or the press serve as a distraction from the critical examination of other communications policies.

    “[T]he purpose of free speech is warped to protect global corporations and block rules that would promote democratic governance.””

    A government official saying freedom of speech, freedom of the press — not so much. Is that a quote saying freedom doesn’t count?

    No.

    This has been another edition of SATSQ.

  61. As for current governments, the USA is the longest running show in town at the moment in some similar shape it was founded in 1787.

    When the US was founded, corporations weren’t given the legal rights of people.

    If you don’t think that’s warped your government out of the original idea, you’re not paying attention.

    But, my overall opinion in governments is the less government, the more freedom of opportunity.

    As in Somalia?

    The other thing that makes the USA unique is we do not have a millenia old civilization.

    You might wanna look up the word “unique” there.

  62. Freedom of speech belongs to those that own networks. There again is the corporate power, control, sculpting opinions to suit them.

    Remember, Dennis Kuccinich, my choice for president, and all other informed American citizens, Liberal/Progressives, that dare read ALL sides of an issue, said he was their choice also, that I spoke with. Most Lefties I know wanted Kuccinich. However NBC decided he was not a legitimate candidate. THEY decided. Not the people of the US. So, he was not allowed into the debates, nor did he get press coverage to speak of. Because he knows about corporate abuses, will expose it when he speaks, and guess who owns the mainstream media? Corporate interests. Defense industry as well. Yeah, they let Kieth O and Ed, and Rachael speak, because they, MSNBC know more and more folks are turning their backs on MSM, so they decided to let the leading perspective in the country have spokespeople, like the aforementioned. It’s drawing more viewers to their side. Still though, their limits exist on the extent they can speak on various subjects.

  63. For one, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), that group the left always trotted out as accurate when Republican presidents trotted out OMB, that group the left always said was non-partisan and more accurate, says ObamaCare is fiscally unsustainable and not cost-neutral. CBO also says Cap and Tax will be hugely expensive for all who use natural gas, electricity, gasoline, etc. Even BHO said everyone will necessarily see skyrocketing electricity costs during his campaign stumps. Do try to keep up, PIATOR.

  64. Blu, I live in Ohio, and I guarantee you a flake like Kucinich couldn’t win his own state. He’s a Representative from Cleveland and he has never won a state-wide race. He can only win in heavy leftist regions.

  65. But, blu, you didn’t answer my question. Do you support an of-age man’s right to have relations with an under-age boy, a la NAMBLA, as the “Safe School Czar” does? Or would you report such a crime to the authorities, as the “Safe School Czar” stated he himself chose to cover up? And would you give a glowing lecture to under-age students on the despicable act of … go to the Patterico link. Not even going to use the term here. The “Safe Schools Czar” gave such a glowing lecture and was only bothered by the fact someone recorded it.

  66. He was not advocating that, John. Not advocating, that is, having sex with older men. He admitted that he didn’t expose it immediately. He might have felt that he didn’t want to harm the boy any more. The young fellow probably thought he was “mature” being involved with some older men. Certainly young girls as well could be as vulnerable, in a hetrosexual situation. No, I don’t believe he was promoting pedophilia.

    Pedophilia is rampant among Republicans. Believe me, you don’t want to go there. I could bring links that would haunt you for days.

  67. The guy mad a mistake, by not reporting it sooner. Agreed. So what. You are making a mountain out of a molehill. It seems more like you are grasping at whatever you can to make your party appear more “moral”. (cough)

  68. I have said it before, blu, I’ll say it again, since you obviously didn’t hear it all the other times I’ve said it.

    I am a Christian first, a Conservative second and a Republican third. And I’m only a Republican because there is currently no viable Conservative Party. Also note: Grass-roots Republicans say the Republicans in Congress are more liberal than the grass-roots Republicans. 74 percent of grass-roots Republicans said that. Do try to keep up with the facts.

  69. Kuccinich is not a flake. He’s ahead of the rest. He’s got guts to say things others won’t, which is why he has been marginalized, and YOU of course believe he’s a “flake” because of those corporate MSM blathering BSers.

    And Ohio has been riddled with Republican dirty tricks when it comes to elections. It poisoned the results of the 2004 presidential election. It was tragic. GWB ended up getting more votes than there were residents in some districts. The list of filthy shenanigans was monstrous in Ohio more than anywhere else.

  70. Speaking of “guts,” as you would say, do you have the “guts” to read the book you told everyone else to read? Or are you too much of a coward to read the book you said every Conservative here should read? Remember, you said it would open our eyes to the Iraq War. Do you have the “guts” to actually read what you told everyone else they were cowards not to read? Or are you merely bluster?

  71. I expect you are too much of a coward because the liberal who wrote that book would blow holes in your astronomical dreamscape dead numbers and your “Bush lied” meme and your “Kucinich is ahead of the curve” bovine byproduct when Kucinich was daft enough to introduce BDS impeachment falsities. And, yes, a liberal woman wrote the book. And, yes, I disagree with parts of the book because it has a liberal bias. But it is not kooksville USA, as Kucinich, et al are.

  72. A “Christian” that is okay with people dying because they can’t afford health care. A “Christian” who supports GWB who is responsible for slaughtering hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings. I’m glad I’m not a Christian anymore. I bought into it for awhile,scared not to, when I was very young. But then, it didn’t make sense to me, that if God is Love, why would he sentence one to eternal damnation in Hell, burning forever? I’m not perfect and I have more compassion than that. Oh, why would he do that? Because one doesn’t accept Jesus? Gee that’s fair….NOT. But you can be a murderer, and accept Jesus, and, what do ya know? Everything gonna be alright, now. Just like that. Dandy.

    I’m not impressed with your moral system, and I’m not impressed with your Christianity.

    Also, I’m not impressed with your blind adherance to party, at the detriment of humanity. Fetuses-good. Muslim children that walk and talk and play-bad. Oh, adults that only mean well in the world, that are Muslim, it’s okay if the USA kills them apparently by you too.

  73. Okay, John, if you read “The Shock Doctrine” by Naomi Klein, I’ll read the book you suggest. You read her first. Deal?

  74. Excuse me, maybe I misunderstood you. I AM reading the book I suggested you read. I thought you were suggesting I (again) read the Liberal with a Gun, or whatever it was.

  75. Blu, you told everyone to read that book. You already gave the homework. You do the homework you already gave us. You don’t get to list two books to read and then only read one of them when someone else calls you on your mendacity and ignorance. Read the book you told everyone else to read. Read “Love My Rifle More Than You.” You told us to read it months ago. I read it years ago. As did my daughter, before she went to Army BCT, and before she went to Iraq, and before she had stories about being in Iraq that blow holes in your mantra. Read the book you already told the rest of us to read. It isn’t all that difficult, is it? Since you already gave your mark of approval on it?

  76. If you live in Ohio, you should go to bed. I live in Washington state. It’s nearly eleven, and I’m hitting the sack.

  77. A “Christian” that is okay with people dying because they can’t afford health care.

    Link to my site that indirectly addresses that false accusation.

    And I know you already read my “a nobody layman sermonizes” article, just by your oblique reference to it.

  78. Heh, I just talked to someone I knew from an online game I played. He came by and checked out my open letter and was instantly aghast. Of course, he also said the NY Times had excellent journalism. And Obama was doing everything he could to better the country. We didn’t agree to disagree. We just disagreed.

    And, thanks to Mr Pico’s little hooziwhatzit off to the right, I believe I know the region of the state where this poor feller lives. :P I saw someone check this site out from Abject, Delusion (and no, that wasn’t me).

  79. SUGGESTING THAT HATING THEM IS A BAD THING TO DO. DO YOU EVEN GIVE A DAMN THAT THESE POOR KIDS THAT ARE GAY, BY

    THE DISRESPECT BY YOU AND YOURS IS CAUSING VERY HIGH SUICIDE RATES AMONG THEM? I’M SURE YOU DON’T GIVE A RAT’S ASS. LIKE THE INNOCENT MUSLIMS IN THE WAY OF OUR WAR, “THEY ARE NOT REALLY HUMAN BEINGS”. IT WAS GOD’S IDEA THESE KIDS ARE GAY, NOT THEIR IDEA. OTHERWISE, AFTER THE CRAP YOU “CHRISTIANS” PUT ON THEM, SUICIDE IS A CHOICE THEY DO MAKE. YOU, MALEVOLENT SELF RIGHTEOUS BASTARDS!

    Blu is proof positive that mental healtcare and prescription drug reforms are desperately needed.

  80. Rovin: “Blu is proof positive that mental healtcare and prescription drug reforms are desperately needed.”

    On the contrary, Rovin, I think you need to give yourself some attention, because right now you are on the wild side!

  81. Back to the original open letter, John Hitchcock. I am curious, are you the sole editor of it, or is it a cut and paste from some other extremist, anti-Obama organization?

    I find it noteworthy that John Hitchcock does not engage Phoenician. I wonder why?

  82. Why are you up in arms about things like health care for all (as is the case in the civilized world of all other industrialized nations), but things like torture, invasion of a nation posing no threat, space aliens blowing up the World Trade Center, the Bush Admin taxing my bonbons, being 300 lbs overweight and living with my two dozen cats in a trailer, blah blah blah, etc.
    Are you guys really that whacked out? OMG, you are!

  83. Blu is proof positive that mental healtcare and prescription drug reforms are desperately needed.

    Splfffat! There goes coffee all over keyboard. Good one, Rovin!

  84. I find it noteworthy that John Hitchcock does not engage Phoenician. I wonder why?

    Because it’s like “Engaging” dog poop on the sidewalk. Why should we waste our time on Internet spam?

  85. Back to the original open letter, John Hitchcock. I am curious, are you the sole editor of it, or is it a cut and paste from some other extremist, anti-Obama organization?

    I guess the only acceptable commentary in the age of Obama is that which praises the Dear Leader, huh, Perry?

  86. ” I find it noteworthy that John Hitchcock does not engage Phoenician. I wonder why?”

    I suspect it’s for the same reason I try to avoid him. Anyone who disagrees with him has to deal with condecention and ridicule. If I don’t agree with you or mike g. or for the most part Thomas Tallis you guys argue your position without insinuating I am some sort of dope for not backing you 100%. You can also argue your points based on life experience without citing Wikki and Google from the Big Bang to the invention of the cotton gin. That crap can get old fast.

    Also, when we debate things related to the US why consider Pho? He has stated more than once his distain and contempt for Aemrica and Americans. Why would I believe someone who hates me would give me good advice? Now THAT would be stupid! And since he isn’t American he has no basis to understand how we feel about liberty, govmint power or the very balance between public and private. He has no “American perspective”.

  87. John C. on Faux:
    He has no “American perspective”.

    Since BO spent a lot of time in his formative years being taught in foreign countries, I wonder how much of an “American perspective” he has.

  88. I think BO’s American perspective is reflected in his big govmint proclivities.

    But as far as I know, Faux has never even set foot in the US.

  89. John C wrote,

    “Holy crap DNW. My wife is South Korean and when I hit your link to Songun she flew down to the family room screaming her lungs out to turn off “That Shit”. Must keep volume lower in the future.”

    Good for your wife!

    She’s obviously more closely acquainted with the real-world principles and consequences of “Dear Leadership” than are the lefty worshippers who we see praising Lord Maitreya Obama here.

  90. Yorkshire wrote:

    “30+ name callings, and no serious debate on what John wrote. “

    You have a point, Yorkshire.

    Therefore, in the spirit of directly addressing the specific issues actually mooted, I would like to say that I do have a disagreement with Mr. Hitchcock.

    Mr. Hitchcock has written,

    “Dear President Obama, you are unfit to be the dog-poop extractor in a small town dog pound.”

    Mr. Hitchcock, I disagree.

    I do believe that Mr. Obama would indeed probably be competent to fill such a position; and, that in his working that particular kind of job, he would have the opportunity to do some genuine public good, while being unable to do very much harm.

    And now, in keeping with and even furthering the same spirit:

    For fans of Michael Moore, who may have been offended by what I wrote about him, I do wish to note that my terming him a shambling fleshbag, glutton, and hypocrite, was perhaps, a case of unnecessarily stating the obvious.

    And, that as a Catholic, if Michael Moore really were an actual and believing Catholic, he would be catechistically entitled to consider the casual and contemptuous mention of his colossal defects to be a sin of “detraction”; however true and inescapable those observations might in fact be.

    Unfortunately for Mr. Moore, and given his enormous public presence as one of the more noticeable figures on the contemporary scene, he will have to continue to live with a certain about of unflattering commentary as he trundles along the public byways, shouting out his weighty moral indictments.

  91. The Cost of Regs from the SF Chronicle:

    Costs of California’s business regulations: start with $1/2 trillion and keep counting
    Here’s something that’s about to get discussed.

    The total cost of regulation to the State of California is $492.994 billion which is almost five times the State’s general fund budget, and almost a third of the State’s gross product.

    But wait, there’s more:

    The cost of regulation results in an employment loss of 3.8 million jobs which is a tenth of the State’s population. Since small business constitute 99.2% of all employer businesses in California, and all of non-employer business, the regulatory cost is borne almost completely by small business.

    The total cost of regulation was $134,122.48 per small business in California in 2007, labor income not created or lost was $4,359.55 per small business, indirect business taxes not generated or lost were $57,260.15 per small business.

    The figure comes from a just released report, originally called for in a 2006 bill and commissioned by Gov. Schwarzenegger’s Office of Planning and Research.

    Stand by for press conferences, statements (especially from certain gubernatorial candidates), hearings, and lots of toing-and-froing.

    You can read the report, ‘Cost of State Regulations on California small businesses,’ here.
    ——————–
    And think what Healthcare would cost?

  92. Perry: “Back to the original open letter, John Hitchcock. I am curious, are you the sole editor of it, or is it a cut and paste from some other extremist, anti-Obama organization?”

    I note that John Hitchcock, who has been commenting on this blog for days in a row, is suddenly silent on this question.

    John Hitchcock: “I am a Christian first, a Conservative second and a Republican third.”

    That’s not what you said at first, then much later went in and changed it. You said you are “a Conservative Christian”. You assume that folks don’t notice and remember. This is duplicitous behavior, John!

    “Conservative Christian”, OK, but there’s more. You are a fraud and a phony! You are a fraud because you cut and pasted your opening letter without attribution. You are a phony because your war-mongering policies are not in tune with the teachings of a pacifist Christ.

    And you other CINO (Christians in name only), who have no qualms about sending our finest to war for a lie, who have no qualms about the civilian collateral damage caused by our invasions, who have no problem with state sponsored murder (death penalty), you need to get down on your knees in deep meditation and reflection, because you are badly in need of a moral readjustment.

    So there you are, by me two ad hominem attacks on you, John Hitchcock. Defend yourself, or let these allegations stand as true.

  93. Eric: Perry: “I find it noteworthy that John Hitchcock does not engage Phoenician. I wonder why?

    Eric: Because it’s like “Engaging” dog poop on the sidewalk. Why should we waste our time on Internet spam?”

    Too easy, Eric, and too weak. John does not engage Phoenician because he has no rebuttal, otherwise he would. He is too sharp for John, who prefers pontification and trivia instead of substance, and too often you too, Eric. The above “spam” response of yours is just one example — the lazy and stupid way out, worth a grade of “F”!

  94. And you other CINO (Christians in name only), who have no qualms about sending our finest to war for a lie, who have no qualms about the civilian collateral damage caused by our invasions, who have no problem with state sponsored murder (death penalty), you need to get down on your knees in deep meditation and reflection, because you are badly in need of a moral readjustment.
    So there you are, by me two ad hominem attacks on you, John Hitchcock. Defend yourself, or let these allegations stand as true.

    Why should he dignify these rants with a response? You sound like some kook who’s had way too much whiskey howling his insanities at the moon!

    Please get back to us when you:

    a) Sober up, or

    b) Regain your sanity.

  95. Too easy, Eric, and too weak. John does not engage Phoenician because he has no rebuttal

    More likely he just doesn’t want to waste time on spam. Pho does not engage, he just bloviates with junk pulled from various Internet sites. Art, for example, often makes deep and insightful posts, only to have Pho sidetrack the discussion with more spam. Dealing with that is a complete waste of time if you want to have a real discussion about serious issues. Pho is a joke, and I’m not going to dignify a joke by pretending he actually has something worthwhile to contribute to any intelligent conversation.

  96. Eric, you have yet to meditate and reflect

    Then please provide something to meditate and reflect ON, instead of just barking at the moon with these rabid rants you like to go on from time to time …

  97. It’s funny dad, I’ve read a lot of these comments bashing you, but none of which disprove any of the points that you have made in your letter. Hmmph, quite interesting. Of course, I cannot have a public opinion on the issues in your letter, but I do have an opinion on this whole debate, if you can call it that. Everyone has an opinion, and most of them are different than yours. But, instead of providing evidence to disprove your statements, these people want to insult your intelligence, your sanity, and even make claims toward you being racially biased. So basically all I have read is a bunch of ignorant(meaning lacking in knowledge; uninformed) people saying, “nunt-uh! You’re lying, he wouldn’t never do that, you just ain’t got no sense!” And I have seen several requests for any proof that you in fact are lying or crazy or even just a little too conservative to see the world as it really is, and as of yet, I see none.

    Like I said, I am not authorized to have an opinion on the matter of this letter, but all I came to say is if you’re going to tell somebody that they are dead wrong, and are stupid, even crazy, maybe you would look just a little less stupid and gain some respect yourself by bringing evidence to support your theory(guess or conjecture) that my father is the one in the wrong. I’m just sayin…

  98. Blubonnet, point well taken!

    Laura: “Like I said, I am not authorized to have an opinion on the matter of this letter, ….”

    Laura, you are certainly as authorized as any of us to share your opinion here, as I am sure Dana would immediately agree.

    If what you are thinking, that only your father is authorized to defend his own statements and policies, again you could, but it is really his responsibility, to which he has not yet stepped up.

    And I do admire you for coming on here in defense of your Dad, although I don’t agree, re Blubonnet’s comment for one. Moreover, he also has to come on here and step up to my challenge about authorship of the letter, and about his Christian proclamations, when the policies he puts forward do not represent the teachings of Christ, in my view, otherwise his pontifications carry no weight except to those who are unwilling to question him for ideological reasons.

    In my view, your Dad has come on here with a series of simply outrageous charges. His concluding remark sets the tone of his entire letter: “Dear President Obama, you are unfit to be the dog-poop extractor in a small town dog pound. And the sooner you pound sand, the better for this great country.”

    What kind of a response would you expect after a hateful letter like this that your Dad wrote?

  99. DNW, I must say my lovely wife has NO time for commies. Her family was ravaged by them an her country laid to waste. She is even more anti-leftist than I, and that’s sayin’ a lot! She has lived what leftists think is utopia. That’s why she’s here with me, thank God.

  100. Perry, Laura is not authorized to have an opinion because she does not have free speech rights. See, she’s wearing the uniform that allows you to speak your opinion in this country. And she spent 15 months in Iraq protecting your freedoms. And, as I said to blu, not everyone works first shift. I work second shift and just recently got home. And there is no cut-and-paste involved in my open letter, other than to copy it from my site and put it over here. It’s all my words.

    And thanks for dropping by, Laura.

  101. And to point out I call myself a Conservative Christian as some sort of claim against my hierarchical statement is intellectually lazy. How many African-Americans are Africans first and Americans second? Or hispanic Americans? Are they hispanic first and American second? The terms are not hierarchically organized, and you already know that. Your blather is void of any reasoning whatsoever.

    I am a Conservative Christian.
    I am a Christian first, a Conservative second, a Republican third (but only because there is no viable Conservative party).
    These are not mutually-exclusive statements.

  102. Some proof of what I’m saying? Are you serious? You have been on this site, fighting tooth-and-nail against multiple articles written by multiple authors to which my open letter points. This stuff has already been discussed here. I just piled a bunch of it up and put it in one article. Do try to keep up.

    Insofar as accusations of hate levied against me, try strong anger and frustration. I gave you a video of what hate looks like and it ain’t my article.

  103. “I am a Christian first, a Conservative second, a Republican third (but only because there is no viable Conservative party).
    These are not mutually-exclusive statements.”

    I think that says it all right there. Thank you, John Hitchcock.

  104. You won’t look it up, so here:

    “We must study this vile liberal technique of emptying garbage pails full of the vilest slanders and defamations from hundreds and hundreds of sources at once, suddenly and as if by magic, on the clean garments of honorable men, if we are fully to appreciate the entire menace represented by these scoundrels of the press.” Adolf Hitler

    “Taking these consequences into account, it is no accident that it is always primarily the liberal who tries and succeeds in planting such mortally dangerous modes of thought in our people.” Adolf Hitler

    “Hence it is that at the present time the liberal is the great agitator for the complete destruction of America. Whenever we read of attacks against America taking place in any part of the world the liberal is always the instigator.” Adolf Hitler

  105. By the way he loved national healthcare, abortion, veggies, gun control, state power, control of media, animals more than people, euthanasia, drugs, war, and socialism. How bout’ you?

  106. To Hitler, George Washington was a liberal. Don’t look it up, think about it. (Are you in a dream world blu?)

  107. “And I do admire you for coming on here in defense of your Dad, although I don’t agree, re Blubonnet’s comment for one.”

    Perry, blubonnet is so far off the reservation she needs help. You can’t really mean you agree with her crazy rants, can you?

  108. Hitler also often proclaimed his Christianity. Here’s an example:

    “My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. Adolph Hitler

    “In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.” Adolph Hitler

    If you look at Erik Prince (owner of Blackwater, America’s mercenary army) and the numerous statements from within the organization, for one, of the criminality and total disregard for innocent life in the name of Christianity, ignoring, the fact that Iraq had no WMDs, and had nothing to do with 9-11, the sport of Blackwater (now calling themselves Xe) men, shooting at civilians, like they were at the country fair, trying to win the teddy bear on the shelf. Completely as in sport, Never mind that men, women and children were being slaughtered. Yep, it’s a fact!

    If you want to bitch about Obama, bitch about his continuation of Blackwater. I’m only touching on some of the ungodly things that Erik Prince is responsible for. I guess Prince felt like his Christianity exonerated him from guilt.

  109. If Hitler was a Chirstian I’m a freekin’ Martian. You really are nuts. I will volunteer to pay for your health insurance if you promise to seek help.

  110. Funny, we “Liberals” here in this day and age, try to get you all to recognize words spoken by Republicans, like Eisenhower, Lincoln, General Smedley Butler, for starters, but “I’m so out there”.

    And Laura, it is nice of you to try and defend your father.

  111. Universal education is the most corroding and disintegrating poison that liberalism has ever invented for its own destruction.
    Adolf Hitler

  112. “Funny, we “Liberals” here in this day and age”

    Liberals? What the hell is liberating about what you believe? Forcing others to carry your weight is liberating? You destroyed the word “Liberal”. Thomas Jefferson was a liberal. John Jay was too. Madison, Monroe and Lincoln were liberals. You are not a liberal. You are a victim. You made yourself one and you relish in it. Stand up and be an American.

  113. Fascism is not the same as Socialism. Democracy can go fascistic. Consider the last 8 years when wire tapping, torture, invading an innocent country based on lies, detaining ANY one from ANY where around the world, including children and even torturing them, through the “Patriot” Act, putting American protesters in cages (literally, fenced in, controlling messages in media outlets like FOX, stolen elections. The list goes on.

    In all fairness Obama has not done much to stop it.

  114. Twice decorated with the Congressional medal of honor, Republican General Smedley Butler, wrote a book:

    War is a Racket
    Look it up. You can even read it online.

  115. blu, finally you hit on something right. Fascism is not the same as socialism. It is socialism part deux. The ultimate socialism.

    And if you believe the last 8 yers was fascism eplaine how you are still here.

  116. And I’m correct about everything I’ve brought here. You could look it up, but you’ll probably just throw ignorant insults instead.

  117. “Twice decorated with the Congressional medal of honor, Republican General Smedley Butler, wrote a book:

    War is a Racket Look it up.”

    And twice decorated with the Medal of Honor (it is NOT congressional, just so you know) General George S. Patton said: “War is beautiful, God how I love it”. Just two men’s opinions. Having fought in one I tend toward George’s view. I never had a bad day killing the enemy. And yes, I did enjoy it. Though I understand it’s not for everybody. Never regretted, never will. After all, I killed them they only wounded me.

  118. blu, this is why I hate citations. Just because some other a-hole agrees with you does not mean either of you are correct. It only means you agree. If you were Faux, you’d have ten links. All boring.

  119. ok now I have to say something. Blu, whoever you think you are, why don’t you go over there and see what really goes on in the American run Iraqi prison system. I will tell you, I worked in one for 15 months, and we got spit on, human shit thrown at us, attacked, and not once were we allowed to “fight back” let alone abuse our prisoners. We could subdue them, and that was all. I want to see you go over there and keep your composure, as you have shown you are too ignorant for already, while you are getting hit in the face with a steaming pile of human shit that some Iraqi who you saw footage of blowing up your comrades just grabbed out of the seat of his pants.
    The American soldiers you see on tape torturing prisoners? Some punk ass privates, you know somebody like them. There’s one or two in every crowd. You cannot sit there, from your lay-z-boy, with your McD’s in hand, while next to your family everyday, and say that you wouldn’t be the one to take your anger and rage out on people you know, KNOW, just blew up your best friend. You are basing your entire opinion of the prison system off of a few isolated incidents. Correct me if I am wrong, but that follows the exact same principals as racism, sexism, and all the other unjustified hatreds in this world.
    Women and children? Yeah, we had them, they were also involved in the infiltration of our FOB(forward operating base) when we arrested them. As for other children in the prisons, well you tell me… There’s no family, no orphanage, and we just arrested their mother and father, what would you have us do with them? Since you know everything there ever was to know.
    Arresting innocent people? I’m sorry, tell the bad guys to put a uniform on and fight us face to face to save us the confusion, then I promise you, no innocent people will be arrested. Some of them do wear uniforms though, they are the corrupt IP and IA, I have the newspaper article where 2 IA killed 5 of our guys with an RPG. Oh, yeah, and they are the ones who abuse prisoners, not us. And when we had prisoners with disciplinary problems, we threatened that we would send them to the IP and they calmed down, very quickly. Short story, in closing…
    I improcessed a prisoner once, as I did many times. We recieved him from the IP’s, he was in their custody for 60 days before being handed over to us. (Notice, the Iraqi Police were the arresting officers) He was STILL wearing the clothes he was arrested in. He had a broken foot, and a 60 day old bullet in his leg, neither of which had even so much as a scooby-doo band-aid on them. So, as SOP states, we held him for 14days, mandatory. We discovered, during his stay, that he had lived in a duplex, well the bad guys lived in the other half. THE IRAQI POLICE got the wrong guy, and beat the snot out of him for no reason. He was a school teacher, with 5 young boys and a wife who didn’t work. His family was left out to dry for no reason. We sent him home with $120( 1400 dinar per US dollar) a new pair of crutches, a mended foot and bullet wound, and new found faith in the Coallition. He cried while he thanked us for everything when we released him back to his family.

    So Blu, before you preach on something, you need to get your facts straight. Because I’ve been there, I’ve lived it, I know what it’s like. So until you do, what what you say because before you just looked stupid, now, you look like a complete idiot.

  120. Laura, first thank you for your service to our country. Second, you have much more restraint than I ever had, I NEVER took a prisoner. They were different times but still. How you don’t just shoot’em all when the enemy is not in uniform baffels me. I know I would. You are a great American and an asset to our country. You are your father’s daughter.

  121. Bombing Iraq from the air, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people, I realize was not your idea. However, your commander in chief put you up to it, lied to your face, caused deaths of thousands, both Americans and Iraqis. Yes, they are pissed off. Most imprisoned are imprisoned for no reason, other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You know it. I’m not blaiming you, again. You trusted your government. They betrayed you, and many others. Just because you now are not engaged in torturing innocent people does not mean it didn’t happen.

    I’m sorry you and anyone should have to endure a war. I’m especially sorry that it was an unnecessary war, based on lies.

    Of course most soldiers, I believe are fine human beings. Many are put in situations that force them to act out of fear for their lives. Of course there is no way to know who the insurgents are. Another reason not to be there, because random killing is going to occur.

    No, I’m not going to apologize for my disgust for the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings. I’m sorry you were duped as well.

    Most people don’t know that there are about as many suicides in the military as there have been killed, because they were forced to participate in war crimes, compliments of George W. Bush.

    Prisoner abuse-torture “philosophy” came from the highest branches of the US government.

  122. Blu, my daughter joined the US Army because of 911 and other terrorist activities against this country. And your “hundreds of thousands of innocents” meme has been disproved many times over, on this site alone.

  123. John Hitchcock, I cannot understand that warped woman. God help me I’m tryin’. But there is no sense there.

  124. And I don’t doubt your sincerity, Laura. You are undoubtedly a courageous young woman, and I admire you, but you have been abused, by deception, and going to war for acquisition of Iraq’s resources. I think it’s only fair to hear from soldiers that have been to Iraq also, and have other experiences to share. Are you willing to consider another perspective? Also, read the link, the previous one, I posted, regarding acquisition of Iraq’s resources. Now, consider what these fine people soldiers dared to tell:

    http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=bjk&q=ivaw%20winter%20soldier&revid=369406135&resnum=0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

  125. Yeah, she’s arguing about “Government mandated torture of military prisoners” with a military prison guard, who had to follow government mandates regarding treatment of prisoners. And my daughter even listed all the stuff they had to put up with without reacting. There’s no educating blu. She’s a serious lost cause.

  126. I’m sorry, I thought I very politely asked you not to speak on issues that you know not of? Hmm, must not have. Do not insult my intelligence by saying that I was “duped”. I own conspiracy theory DVD’s, I have researched the lies told about the Bush administration. I am not ignorant, do not assume that you know me. And your statistical analysis is quite incorrect. More soldiers die in POV accidents than any other deaths in the Military service, second? ahhh yes, combat. I take a suicide avoidance class every 3 months, mandatory training. I know there are 4x as many suicides in the Army as there are in the civilian world. They are not all because these weak individuals committed war crimes. Turn off the Army Wives, and find some real stats. Many suicides happen because soldiers want to go back, because their husbands or wives left them while they were deployed, or because they saw some pretty messed up stuff over their, but no where near 1% of suicides are linked to their “guilty consciences” get a grip. They can say no, and not get in trouble if they are given an unlawful order. Too easy. I joined the Army in 2006, years after the war started, you think I went in blind? You are outside your mind.

    Everything you have said is simply speculation. Just because you have others who back you doesn’t make you right. The earth is flat. This is a faster way to china. They had many followers, it didn’t make them any more correct.

    Ignorance is bliss

  127. “You are undoubtedly a courageous young woman, and I admire you, but you have been abused, by deception, and going to war for acquisition of Iraq’s resources.”

    You think Laura is a victim too, blu? And exactly what resources do you or I have from a shit hole like Iraq? Show me one.
    You are dispicable to say THAT to a soldier. Typical liberal.

  128. JohnC, yes, I could tell you my unit, but not on this site infested with loonies. But we are scheduled to deploy somewhere around Sep ’10 to Iraq for now, but seems like that’s going to change to Afgan… There are rumors going around so we will see

  129. oh, BTW we are not at war with IQ, and the citizens there have thanked us for our protection. I have personally been thanked for my part, by an innocent Iraqi who was housed in the detention facility I worked in. Innocent, in prison, thanking the foreign guard who is occupying his country…. Man, we are just doing terrible things over there!!!

  130. Face it, blu, you just got a glorious verbal beat-down by a 21-year-old soldier. And all you have as a retort is “but, but, but, you don’t know what it’s like in Iraq. I have spent all this time in Washington state and I know all about Iraq.”

  131. I never said that having feces thrown at her was a fine thing. It’s horrible. Need I say that?

    Most are unfairly imprisoned though. Are they scathing mad. I think so. Would you be? Of course.

    There are no winners in this war. It sucks. It’s unjust, and Laura is one of its victims, if only that she had to participate in it. It’s unfair to her also.

    Sadly, Laura thought she was defending the country because of 9/11/01. Everyone now knows Sadaam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11/01. Bush knew it. All of the administration knew it. They also knew, since all the weapons inspectors, as well as many other sources, declared there was no evidence of WMDs. This is old information though. I can hardly believe it is being rehashed.

  132. Loonies? Laura, say it ain’t so! Well, I know Pop is proud of you and I as a fellow freedom loving American I am too. Watch your back. Keep in touch (that goes for you too Hitchcock, keep us informed).

    Note to blu: my body count was 37. How’s that grab ya?

  133. I’ve talked to Iraqi Veterans. I’ve talked to Vietnam Veterans. What follows, often times is a life of alcoholism, a sadness that is incomprehensible they live with.

    My friend, Billy, would cry whenever I’d ask him about Iraq. He said, he’d killed finer men than himself. He became an addict of different sorts. I don’t talk to him anymore.

    Vietnam Veterans also. They became raging alcoholics. The ones I know though, after years of self destructive behavior-alcoholism, they finally quit. They fully recognize now how ruthlessly their own government abused them. It’s unforgivable.

    Who here has had the guts to listen to the winter soldiers testimonies, in the link, before the last one I posted?

  134. And, I know you all are not just doing terrible things over there. I think that our soldiers are some of America’s finest human beings. Which is why it is especially sad. Your fine character and courage is exploited.

  135. Blu, don’t you dare accuse people of cowardice in not following your loony toons links when you, yourself, declared you will not follow conservative links. Your deceit is overwhelmingly manifest. As is your complete depravity.

  136. You know those people who aren’t parents, but their sister has a baby, so they know all there is to know about that….
    I never shot a gun but my daddy has one so I know all there is to know about that…
    I never drove a porche but my neighbor has one so I know all there is to know about that…
    I never been to war but somebody I know did so…
    Need I continue? I love those types of people, we are BFF

  137. And, I know you all are not just doing terrible things over there.

    Try this on for size. Our soldiers are not doing terrible things over there. No “just doing” about it. You forget you’re talking to someone who spent 15 months over there while you sat in your recliner accusing our military of being murderers and torturers and all sorts of other evil.

    Even as you try to hide your true colors, Laura has seen through it all.

  138. Name calling doesn’t work when trying to make points. I didn’t think you’d dare look honestly at contrary evidence. Just call me names. I don’t care at all. I do care about the unfathomable numbers of people slaughtered though, because of an administration that lied.

    I’ve got plenty to back up may statements. You just won’t dare look. Okay you’re not a coward, but you won’t even consider that there is another perspective than the one you’ve been fed, by the people who lied to you.

  139. You’re hopeless. I’m sorry for your lack of awareness. There’s nothing more to say. It’s only a one dimensional perspective you have. There’s other expressions of reality in Iraq, with the experience to back up the statements too. You are not interested. Bye.

  140. Blu, you already told me you will not follow my links. My links, including secondary and tertiary links, provide facts. But you refused, in writing, to even follow any of them. You don’t even consider the possibility, no matter how 100 percent, that you are dead wrong.

  141. Did I not say that I have done my homework? I am not afraid of some website, I just don’t waste my time, and apparently you refuse to look at conservative sites too though huh? And if you are referring to the comment I made about “loonies” I never said that YOU were the loony tune. I do believe someone has a guilty conscience… hmmmm.

  142. blu, you paint with a really broad brush. Did you ever stop to think that it may be people like you who caused the vets to be “raging alcoholics”? Perhaps a little support and a little less spitting would have helped. It never bothered me, but I did see it hurt other guys. I was a scout with the 82nd and I loved it. I was paid $163.81 a month to kill enemy officers. I was good at it too. Got to see a lot of pink smoke. Got hit twice, neither so bad I didn’t recover. Though the second busted up my leg bad enough they sent me home. To this day I know I could have done another tour if they let me R&R a few more months before discharge. Hell, I was walkin’. Besides, I spent most of the time on my belly. Funny, when you go you worry you won’t come back. When you come back you worry about your friends who my need you there. Nuts.

  143. blu, finally you hit on something right. Fascism is not the same as soc1alism. It is soc1alism part deux. The ultimate soc1alism

    Uh-huh:

    No individuals or groups (political parties, cultural associations, economic unions, social classes) outside the State. Fascism is therefore opposed to Soc1alism to which unity within the State (which amalgamates classes into a single economic and ethical reality) is unknown, and which sees in history nothing but the class struggle. Fascism is likewise opposed to trade unionism as a class weapon. But when brought within the orbit of the State, Fascism recognizes the real needs which gave rise to soc1alism and trade unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or corporative system in which divergent interests are coordinated and harmonized in the unity of the State

  144. oh, BTW we are not at war with IQ, and the citizens there have thanked us for our protection. I have personally been thanked for my part, by an innocent Iraqi who was housed in the detention facility I worked in. Innocent, in prison, thanking the foreign guard who is occupying his country…. Man, we are just doing terrible things over there!!!

    I’m sure they told you whatever you wanted to hear.

    Meanwhile

    And your “hundreds of thousands of innocents” meme has been disproved many times over, on this site alone.

    Uh-huh.

  145. PIATOR, Laura already gave you a preemptive beat-down when she gave blu a beat-down but you were too dumb to realize it.

    To quote you, while using the singular form of your favorite plural word, “Idiot.”

  146. Oh, back to Perry’s unlearned, uneducated, unresearched bile. Jesus isn’t and wasn’t the pacifist you claim Him to be. Check out Him in action as He overturns the money-changers’ tables inside the temple. Not so very pacifist, you know? Watch Him in action before He became born, many years before His birth, as He lays waste to Sodom and Gomorrah. Not so very pacifist then, either.

  147. Pingback: My Daughter Carries A BIG Stick! « Truth Before Dishonor

  148. Phoenician in a time of Romans:

    And still no lefty can say when we’ve given up enough control to the govmint

    When you can show that less government control would work better.

    In the case of health care and the collapse of insufficiently regulated financial institutions, you have a problem. If it was just the Right, we’d let you rot in your Libertopia, but, alas, your stupidity will drag the rest of us down with you.

    Which country has the highest standard of living in the world? Hint: USA How many countries have had massive government control and collapsed under their own governmental weight since USA was born? Hint: a vast number. Which country had the most medical break-throughs from 1860 till today? Hint: USA Which country has had the most powerful industry in the world since the time of the industrial revolution? Hint: USA Which country has had the most impoverished-to-wealthy transcendent individuals? Hint: USA Which countries had late-20th century bread lines at the market? Hint: Soviet Union, Eastern Bloc Nations, NK, Cuba, other overwhelmingly government-controlled countries. What did East Germany look like compared to West Germany on the day the wall came down? Hint: East Germany was impoverished but West Germany was not.

    So, when does less government control make for better lives of the citizens? Hint: Every time.

  149. Perry, I gave you a quote and a link to the full information where an Obama admin official said “freedom? not so much” since you asked for one. But you said nothing about that. Instead, you moved the goal posts. And then my daughter came over here and totally trashed your mendoucheousness (to borrow a term from Patterico’s Pontifications commenters). What say you to my documented evidence? What say you to my daughter?

  150. I wish to note that nine hours after I answered Perry’s and mike g’s accusations, neither of them have found the courage to step up and respond. Obviously they cannot back up their accusations when confronted by my facts or they would’ve commented by now.

    .

    .

    .

    And before anyone attack me for demanding they respond while they’re sleeping, remember they attacked me for not responding while I was either asleep or at work, not caring that some people don’t have the luxury of chatting on the internet during day jobs.

    And that sentence is full of material. Read it three times and you’ll get new material each time.

  151. Ok, let’s look at your ignorance in detail:

    Which country has the highest standard of living in the world? Hint: USA

    Median household income US$PPP 2007 – Switzerland $60,288, US $50,233.

    How many countries have had massive government control and collapsed under their own governmental weight since USA was born? Hint: a vast number.

    How many countries have not ever collapsed under their own governmental control? Hint: an even larger number.

    Which country had the most medical break-throughs from 1860 till today? Hint: USA

    And yet you have a higher infant mortality and don’t live as long as people in other countries. It’s almost as if they’re something getting in the way of translating these medical breakthroughs into actual public good…

    Which country has had the most powerful industry in the world since the time of the industrial revolution? Hint: USA

    Nope. The Industrial Revolution started in 1769 with the Spinning Jenny. England was dominant until the early years of the twentieth century, say 1920 or 1930. And china is set to overtake your GDP around 2020.

    Which country has had the most impoverished-to-wealthy transcendent individuals? Hint: USA

    Once maybe. Now, however

    “Americans are particularly optimistic about their chances of moving up the economic ladder,” said Isaacs. “However, a growing number of studies show that when compared to other industrialized nations, the United States stands out as having less, not more, economic mobility.” In particular, 42 percent of sons born into the bottom income quintile stay there as adults, compared to 25 percent in Denmark, 28 percent in Norway and 30 percent in the United Kingdom. Moreover, it takes an average of six generations for family economic advantages to disappear in the United States, compared to three generations for Canada, signaling higher mobility in Canada. It is important to note when making such cross-country comparisons, that Americans may have farther to climb to get to the next rung on the ladder than their European counterparts due to increasing levels of inequality in the United States.

    Which countries had late-20th century bread lines at the market? Hint: Soviet Union, Eastern Bloc Nations, NK, Cuba, other overwhelmingly government-controlled countries.

    Uh-huh:

    Many say a depression doesn’t have to be great, that the economy can sink into a milder depression. The Salvation Army says it’s happening now, and in San Diego County, people are standing in line outside a Salvation Army waiting for donated bread.

    Salvation Army director of communications Suzi Woodruff Lacey said they are seeing people from all walks of life: “white collar, blue collar, people who have lost their jobs, people who are in danger of losing their homes.”

    What did East Germany look like compared to West Germany on the day the wall came down? Hint: East Germany was impoverished but West Germany was not.

    The problem for your argument is that we are not comparing East and West Germany. We are comparing the US to other Western countries such as those of Europe, and finding the US lacking in many respects.

  152. Oh, back to Perry’s unlearned, uneducated, unresearched bile. Jesus isn’t and wasn’t the pacifist you claim Him to be. Check out Him in action as He overturns the money-changers’ tables inside the temple.

    Ahem – Matther 21:12-13:

    “Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. “It is written,” he said to them, ” ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it a ‘den of robbers.’”

    John, the modern day money-changers in the temple aren’t that difficult to find, and they’re thriving in the US…

  153. This entire thread represents a microcosm of the extreme ideological polarization that has become so rampant in our culture, a sad spectacle to observe, and self-defeating.

    It is all about one side wishing to “beat down” the other, while the other tries to use fact and reason to bridge the gap to peace.

    What saddens me the most is that one of us said this: “Having fought in one [war] I tend toward George’s view. I never had a bad day killing the enemy. And yes, I did enjoy it. Though I understand it’s not for everybody. Never regretted, never will. After all, I killed them they only wounded me.”

    This is what war does to people, more likely especially those who end up participating on the front lines. This is why we must avoid waging war!

    But to John Hitchcock: I take your word about your authorship, therefore I retract “fraud”. I stick with phony [Christian], as I do not believe you accurately characterize Christ the man and his teaching. I commend this essay on this subject of Christian Pacificism.

    Jesus said, “Put your sword back in its place … for all who draw the sword will die by the sword” [Mt. 26:52]. And again, “But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also” [Mt. 5:39]. The Old Testament prophet said, “They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks” [Mic. 4:3], a prophecy fulfilled where the people take the way of Christ and his Spirit seriously. And the way of Christ is best found in his own words.

    In Luke chapter six, we read, “But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again. Do to others as you would have them do to you. If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. If you do lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners…. But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful” [Lk. 6:27-36].

    In John 18:36 Jesus says, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my followers would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews”. Again in Matthew 5:9, Jesus said, “Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called [known as] the children of God”.

    To observe on here the trials and tribulations of daughter Laura is very difficult for me, seeing the suffering and mental torture that we put our troops through, and for what cause? We must constantly ask ourselves this question: For what cause?

    I have to go back to this: When any citizen considers it appropriate to make a statement like the following, our culture is under serious attack from a mighty dangerous fringe element of our society: “Dear President Obama, you are unfit to be the dog-poop extractor in a small town dog pound. And the sooner you pound sand, the better for this great country.”

    Retract that statement, John Hitchcock, or continue on as a member of that dangerous fringe!

  154. “This is what war does to people, more likely especially those who end up participating on the front lines. This is why we must avoid waging war!”

    Perry, you cannot avoid waging war, it will find you sooner or later. And when it does you will need soldiers like Laura is and I was to fight it. You need to understand that sometimes the opposite of war is not peace, it’s slavery.

    What war did to me was make me aware I was not the center of the universe. That other things like freedom for my fellow man, honor and loyalty to my fellow soldiers and the understanding that as crappy as war is sometimes it’s the only answer. War also taught me that I wasn’t a coward and I valued the men around me above myself. That was an awakening for me.

    I was a scout so I was far in front of the front lines most of the time. Just me and my Spotter. It was his job to secure the target and my job to make the money shot. If he failed, I failed. And if I failed we both died. We were a team. And we were soldiers.

  155. John, I hear you and don’t doubt a word you say.

    I am active in trying to make less likely the necessity for putting people like you and Laura into harm’s way, in a situation in which you must do whatever you can to survive, which I fully understand.

    I feel that I have a responsibility to strive for peaceful solutions to conflicts, by keeping informed and by expressing my views publicly while interacting with my representatives in government.

    We must be sure that war is used only as a last resort in the future. This will require a huge change in our national philosophy in order to make this an operating principle. It is this change for which I am active.

  156. Perry, I understand where you are coming from and admire the objective. I agree war should be the last resort just keep in mind you must be prepared to use your last resort or surrender without fireing a shot.
    That cannot be an option.

    From time to time freedom does require blood. Ask Lionides, ask Sparticus, Ask Washington. It’s a sad but true state of affaires that there will always be men who wish to impose themselves on others and trample their liberty. Until these men are gone, war will exist.

  157. “I am a Christian first, a Conservative second, a Republican third (but only because there is no viable Conservative party).
    These are not mutually-exclusive statements.”

    I think that says it all right there. Thank you, John Hitchcock.

    Dittoes to that from Eric!

  158. Just for the record, Hitler hated Liberals. Look it up.

    Hitler hated pretty much everybody. What’s your point?

  159. Hitler also often proclaimed his Christianity. Here’s an example:
    “My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. Adolph Hitler

    Did it ever occur to you, Blu, that Hitler was simply LYING? Pretending to be Christian in a nation that was largely Catholic and Lutheran, for the sake of gaining power and influence? Hitler personally loathed Christianity, seeing it as “A religion for weaklings” and his ideology much more in line with Neitzche and Darwin.

  160. Twice decorated with the Congressional medal of honor, Republican General Smedley Butler,

    It is possible to be brave and either an idiot or a loon at the same time. An Smedley qualifies on all three fronts.

  161. So Blu, before you preach on something, you need to get your facts straight. Because I’ve been there, I’ve lived it, I know what it’s like. So until you do, what what you say because before you just looked stupid, now, you look like a complete idiot.

    Blu will never get her facts straight because they get in the way of her ideology. And Laura, thank you very much for your service, and for explaining the TRUTH about what’s going on in Iraq, as counter to the LIES spread by the America hating Far Left.

  162. Blubonnet presents facts, Eric counters with opinion based on his ideology, plus a significant dose of personal nastiness toward her. How impressive is that?

    Moreover, Blubonnet offers kindness and compassion to her fellow commenters, regardless of their politics. Her comportment is a model for this blog, in my view.

    Eric: …as counter to the LIES spread by the America hating Far Left.”

    What lies are those, Eric? Citation please!

  163. Your idealism trumps facts that are presented to you over and over and over again. You choose the side of war, when war is not justified. There’s a plentitude of verifiable facts brought to you on the warring Right wing, and you ignore them.

    Also, I do look at the links from the opposing perspective, only out of respect for the sake of honest debate. As always, though, it doesn’t hold water, in contrast to facts, and regard for human life.

    Have you looked at the links I’ve left? Did you hear the many soldiers testimonies of the Winter Soldier hearings? No, you didn’t did you?

    Honesty is regarded highly in Christianity and all religions.

    Hypocrisy was despised by Jesus, and the ones proclaiming proudly the title of “Christian” show consistent hypocrisy.

    My facts, incidentally have been backed up by credible sources, brought here, which you ignore.

  164. Blubonnet presents facts,

    No. Laura presented FACTS. She’s been in Iraq and knows, firsthand, what’s been going on there. Blu should be embarrassed to try to “correct” her, indeed, her ignorance is matched only by her arrogance. For Blu to try to lecture Laura about service in Iraq would be like me trying to lecture Tiger Woods on how to play golf.

  165. You think Laura is a victim too, blu? And exactly what resources do you or I have from a shit hole like Iraq? Show me one.
    You are dispicable to say THAT to a soldier.

    Agreed 100%. Laura’s smackdown on the ignorant and arrogant Blu was a thing of beauty to see. You go, Laura, and best wishes on your continued service while mouse potatoes like Blu try to “lecture” others on what it’s really like to serve. To call you a dupe is the height of ignorant foolishness!

  166. What lies are those, Eric?

    The lie that American troops murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, and that’s just for starters. The lie the Americans routinely torture civilians held in custody. Laura explained in detail just what this duty entails, the restraints they operate under, and the abuses they have to put up with. I am very grateful to people like Laura, both for their service and for countering the lies of the America hating Left.

  167. Face it, blu, you just got a glorious verbal beat-down by a 21-year-old soldier. And all you have as a retort is “but, but, but, you don’t know what it’s like in Iraq. I have spent all this time in Washington state and I know all about Iraq.”

    Excellent point, John. If I were in Blu’s position, I would show some humility and thank people like Laura for explaining the facts and correcting the lies and misconceptions of what is happening in Iraq. But Blu, the all-knowing, is too arrogant and rigid-minded to ever admit she was simply wrong.

  168. From time to time freedom does require blood. Ask Lionides, ask Sparticus, Ask Washington. It’s a sad but true state of affaires that there will always be men who wish to impose themselves on others and trample their liberty.

    Yes. The problem with Iraq was that it was a war of aggression – those men were American.

  169. The lie that American troops murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, and that’s just for starters.

    That link again:

    On Friday, 14 September 2007, ORB (Opinion Research Business), an independent polling agency located in London, published estimates of the total war casualties in Iraq since the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.[1] At over 1.2 million deaths (1,220,580), this estimate is the highest number published so far. From the poll margin of error of +/-2.5% ORB calculated a range of 733,158 to 1,446,063 deaths. The ORB estimate was performed by a random survey of 1,720 adults aged 18+, out of which 1,499 responded, in fifteen of the eighteen governorates within Iraq, between August 12 and August 19, 2007.[2][3] In comparison, the 2006 Lancet survey suggested almost half this number (654,965 deaths) through the end of June 2006. The Lancet authors calculated a range of 392,979 to 942,636 deaths.

    On 28 January 2008, ORB published an update based on additional work carried out in rural areas of Iraq. Some 600 additional interviews were undertaken September 20 to 24, 2007. As a result of this the death estimate was revised to 1,033,000 with a given range of 946,000 to 1,120,000.[4][5]
    [...]
    ORB reported that “48% died from a gunshot wound, 20% from the impact of a car bomb, 9% from aerial bombardment, 6% as a result of an accident and 6% from another blast/ordnance.”[1]

  170. Laura explained in detail just what this duty entails, the restraints they operate under, and the abuses they have to put up with. I am very grateful to people like Laura, both for their service and for countering the lies of the America hating Left.

    Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba explained in detail what was being done. What exactly is Laura’s rank, and what is her claim to know what is going on in every military facility in Iraq and elsewhere?

  171. Eric, calm down! You are boiling over with anger and making no sense, while making personal attacks on Blubonnet, and they are not even accurate.

    On the subject of Laura and facts: She has her facts, Blu has hers; both have given their facts in this thread.

    On the subject of Laura and victimhood: Blubonnet is showing empathy for the experience that Laura has endured in Iraq. Go read her posts, or need I pull out some quotes for you?

    On the subject of Blubonnet and arrogance: Eric, disagreement is not arrogance, otherwise you would be seen as the most arrogant commenter on this blog.

    On the murdering of Iraqi citizens: The exact number is not known, but there have been estimates which back up Blubonnet’s comment, and she cited a reference, which you can view here. And by the way, Eric, where is your reference. Where is your reference to any of the many allegations you make. You cannot expect credibility if all you do is rant. The base will love what you say, but the rest of us will hardly pay attention.

    On this quote which you just attributed to Blubonnet: “I have spent all this time in Washington state and I know all about Iraq.” She never said that in this thread, as per my search, so you lied, either a misquote or something you made up.

    Eric, sorry, but you are a lazy commenter, interested only in inflamming, in perpetrating personal attacks, and in furthering your own idiotology (my bad), without even bothering to check out in detail what folks are saying along with their citations, and without doing a little research of your own, as shown by your rare use of citations. You do exactly the same thing with Phoenician’s posts.

    This is not impressive. I will continue to push back when you do this!

  172. I have to go back to this: When any citizen considers it appropriate to make a statement like the following, our culture is under serious attack from a mighty dangerous fringe element of our society: “Dear President Obama, you are unfit to be the dog-poop extractor in a small town dog pound. And the sooner you pound sand, the better for this great country.”
    Retract that statement, John Hitchcock, or continue on as a member of that dangerous fringe!

    You really need to lighten up, Perry. You take yourself oh-so-seriously and seem to have no sense of humor. That quote was, in fact, hilarious, and shows that even presidents aren’t above a little mockery from time to time.

    Oh, and let’s not forget the stuff said about George W. I’d rather be called a dog poop scooper than Hitler and a Nazi any day. Wouldn’t you?

  173. The troll sayeth:

    What exactly is Laura’s rank, and what is her claim to know what is going on in every military facility in Iraq and elsewhere?

    I’ll take the word of someone who’s actually been there over some mouse potato any day!

    PS That “survey” is a crock. If we are to believe it, that means we killed more civilians in Iraq than we did in Japan and Germany in WW 2, despite the fact that we carpet bombed entire cities to the ground. On the very face of it, it makes no sense at all.

    PPS That “ORB (Opinion Research Business), an independent polling agency located in London” is, what, some far left group with a major agenda? I’ll bet they’re about as “independent” as I am a Martian. Funny, you don’t see anything like those stats coming from any remotely respectable media sources.

  174. On this quote which you just attributed to Blubonnet: “I have spent all this time in Washington state and I know all about Iraq.” She never said that in this thread, as per my search, so you lied, either a misquote or something you made up.

    First off, that quote came from John Hitchcock, not me. If you can’t even get your commenters straight, please don’t accuse me of being lazy. And it was obviously meant to be facetious, meaning, mocking Blu’s “Know-it-all” attitude when it comes to Iraq.

    Seriously Perry, you need to lighten up and get a sense of humor. We can all see that Blu is a loon, a self absorbed mouse potato who thinks that posting the same kooky links proves some sort of wisdom or evenhanded factual knowledge. She is a far left kook and 9/11 Twoofer who is so pig-headed she cannot admit error, even when corrected by someone with vastly superior first hand experience like Laura.

  175. without even bothering to check out in detail what folks are saying along with their citations, and without doing a little research of your own, as shown by your rare use of citations.

    It’s true I don’t provide cites very often, and only when absolutely necessary. The main reason is that you can use the Internet to “prove” just about anything. I’m sure, with a little “research”, I could find Internet sources to prove that Bigfoot exists or that the government is hiding dead Space Aliens at Area 51. In short, there’s tons of kookery online, thus making the Internet a dubious source for truth and accuracy at best.

    The other reason I don’t do it often is that I consider myself an honest and honorable person, and I expect to be taken at my word, just as I expect the same of others. If I don’t know something, or my facts are in error, I’ll be honest and humble enough to admit it. For example, I don’t know the total death toll in Iraq, because I’ve yet to see a reliable and accurate source for such information, but I do know from simple common sense that Pho’s “Source” is just plain full of shit.

  176. Mr Hitchcock e-mailed me, noting that I hadn’t participated in this thread yet. We’ve been really busy at work, as a major project (52,000 yd³ worth of major!) has really taken off in the past few weeks.

    And so it was only today that I looked into this thread, in part because Mr Hitchcock let me know that his daughter was participating. Welcome aboard, Laura!

    The comment thread here has gotten rather rough, but there’s one comment in particular I really dislike. Blu wrote:

    And I don’t doubt your sincerity, Laura. You are undoubtedly a courageous young woman, and I admire you, but you have been abused, by deception, and going to war for acquisition of Iraq’s resources.

    I don’t care how much someone opposes the war in Iraq — opposition is, of course, certainly one’s right and comes under free speech protection on this site — I really, really don’t like seeing people insulted for having joined the armed services.

    Art and Yorkshire and Eric already know this story. I used to participate in two political e-mail circles. In one of them, a mostly liberal group, there was one woman who was a major participant and very vocal critic of President Bush and the war. In fact, she went as far as to have said that if Vice President Gore had won the election in 2000, there would have been no World Trade Center attack, because it was a “welcoming gift” from Osama bin Laden to George Bush, personally, and that he would have called it off had Mr Gore become our 43rd President. This lady, a wealthy widow as it happens, was also a very virulent critic of Jews, not just Israeli policy, but a constant critic of Jews in American finance as “greedy,” and this in a group which included a female Jewish lawyer from the Philly burbs.

    Well, the thing that finally drove me from that group, and to block the anti-Semite in question’s e-mails, was one in which, after I told the group how our older daughter had surprised us by joining the Army Reserve, she asked me how it would feel when my daughter was killed trying to clean up Israel’s neighborhood.

    If Laura wants to participate in the debate here, anything that she writes becomes fair game for criticism; you decide to play the game, and you can’t complain when your opponents play against you. But I really, really don’t like criticism of Laura, or calling her a dupe or anything like that for having joined the United States Army; that’s over the line.

  177. Dana: “Blubonnet: And I don’t doubt your sincerity, Laura. You are undoubtedly a courageous young woman, and I admire you, but you have been abused, by deception, and going to war for acquisition of Iraq’s resources.

    Dana: I don’t care how much someone opposes the war in Iraq — opposition is, of course, certainly one’s right and comes under free speech protection on this site — I really, really don’t like seeing people insulted for having joined the armed services.”

    Dana, I don’t see Blubonnet’s statement as an insult to Laura at all. She is criticizing the leaders who would place Laura on a battlefield unnecessarily. In fact Blubonnet even said she admired Laura.

    I am surprised that you overlooked this statement of John Hitchcock: “Dear President Obama, you are unfit to be the dog-poop extractor in a small town dog pound. And the sooner you pound sand, the better for this great country.”

    Are you this insensitive to this insult of our President, Dana?

    Come on now, this sort of right wing hyperbolic nastiness has to be called out, even by right wingers themselves!

  178. And Perry is playing the “fine for me but not for thee” game. Make movies about the assassination of a sitting President (R), have boisterous protests where private property is vandalized and people carry signs that “Bush must die” or “Bush=Hitler” etc, ad nauseum and crickets from the left.

    But say something far less aggressive, far less destructive about Teh Won, and leftists crawl out of the woodwork denouncing your usage of the First Amendment.

  179. Phoenician in a time of Romans:

    I wish to note that nine hours after I answered Perry’s and mike g’s accusations, neither of them have found the courage to step up and respond.

    I wish to note that it is Saturday, and some of us have lives.

    PIATOR, you really do need to learn about context. Perry caught on to what I was saying.

  180. I would like to make something clear. I never insulted Laura for joining the military. I foolishly believed George W. Bush in the beginning. I was furious when I realized the lies that brought about a damned war. It is unconscionable to send people to fight and die, not to mention a full blown CRIME. It is out of respect for those like Laura, that I’m so peeved. I’ve seen soldiers in videos, saluting, with tears running down their face. That made me cry, and I seldom cry anymore, I usually get mad instead.

    Another thing, I NEVER refuted the reality that Laura experienced. I said I believed she was sincere. However, to disagree with me, is also to disagree with many many other troops that have made statements of what went on over there. So, don’t assume, Laura, that your experience is the same as everyone else that was there. Also, the war is not exactly the same now as it was earlier on. There was so much political backlash, such an overwhelming speaking out against the torture, that it may well have subsided. But, I do know that long after it was protested against, and exposed the Bush cabal was still doing it.

    It may still be going on at “black sites”. Who knows? Obama is a dreadful downer in that he is continuing far too much of Bush’s policies.

    If you truly honor our service men and women, Eric and John, why don’t you DARE to listen to their experiences? I posted a link quite a ways up. I’m not calling you a coward, I’m saying you’re not being honest with yourself. You are mad at me, not because of me, but because there is so much that proves your position wrong, that you’re fighting your inner doubts, in my opinion.

  181. blubonnet:

    More empty, worthless commenting from John Hitchcock. C-ya.

    So, blu, you admit when PIATOR does it to Art and other authors here, PIATOR is making an empty, worthless comment?

  182. Phoe disrespects willful ignorance. She exposes facts. She presents valid sources. She makes no pretenses about her disrespect for those pumping out the MSM’s BS. The sources she brings are not those of war profiteering networks, (warned of by Dwight Eisenhower: “beware the influence of the military industrial complex”). Of course though, after the sources are plentiful enough, and most already know the disturbing truths anyway, even the defense industry networks will present it, then, she uses them as well, as do the rest of the Liberals here. Even then, those of you won’t consider it true though, if it makes you uncomfortable.

    Did you hear the many soldiers’ testimonies I left a link for yet? You do respect our troops words, don’t you?

    http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=bjk&q=ivaw%20winter%20soldier&revid=369406135&resnum=0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

  183. Yup, you said “that’s different” when I used the exact same line PIATOR uses. And you claim I am the hypocritical one? Seriously, you are dead from the neck up.

  184. Phoe has never indicated her sex. I believe she has indicated she is gay in some things posted. I don’t think you’ll get an answer out of her (him?) though. I could be wrong.

    Does everything you say have to be insulting? Insults are okay if they include factual backing.

    You haven’t answered my question, by the way.

  185. Alright, all you right-wing kooks who have been commenting here, I have to deliver a message. My daughter just recently read all the lovin you gave her and it made her smile. On behalf of her, despite the fact she did not know I was gonna do this and she did not even hint at my doing this, I thank you for your lovin.

    She did me proud in Iraq and on this thread. And you right-wing kooks did me proud, too. I am all too happy to be counted among the right-wing kook-dom.

  186. Blu, when you tell a soldier who’s “been there, done that” that she’s wrong because you have a link, and you refuse to admit that she’s right, you lose all credibility. (Not that you had any to start with.)

  187. How many times do I have to tell you, John? I NEVER said she was wrong. I said that I’m sorry the President lied to her. Also, I said, I believed the president as well. I’m pissed off for humanity and I’m pissed off for the misery she and other soldiers had to endure for the lies, and the unnecessary war. The experiences vary over there. I will not retract what I said about the REAL experiences others had over there either.

    So, have you heard the other soldiers’ testimonies yet, or do you not even care?

    http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=bjk&q=ivaw%20winter%20soldier&revid=369406135&resnum=0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

  188. Despite what you think, John, and her and your words against me, I too am appreciative of her courage, and willingness to defend our country, even if her government deceived her (and all of us). I’m also appreciative of all those willing to defend the country. I think they deserve more regard than this government have shown them.

  189. Phoe has never indicated her sex.

    I could falsely claim you are a liar, but I will instead state you are mistaken. PIATOR has admitted to being a lowly male on this site.

  190. I think my daughter deserves more regard than any leftist has ever shown her (or the Viet Nam vets). You have mocked her indirectly many times over and you directly insulted her intelligence (and got called out on it) and other leftists (maybe even you) have claimed the (wholly leftist state-run) public education system leaves people so ignorant they have to join the military just to get a decent job.

    Let me be clear on this, in case I wasn’t yet: The Vietnam war could’ve been won by the good, altruistic side and not lost to the evil communists had the US liberals not destroyed everything. Vietnam vets could’ve come home to appreciative people and not been shat on by liberals in this country. American libs lost the Vietnam war and tied the Korean war, nothing to do with the (out of country) enemies of freedom.

  191. Blu, I will not follow your links. Not because I am a coward or hypocritical, but because you’re a loon and any link that backs up your loon-dom is likely written by another loon. And I have no interest in being credible to a loon such as yourself.

    Like my byline over on my site that I know you read on a semi-regular basis says (as shown by your oblique reference to it and your occasional comments on it), I would rather be right than popular. And that (along with my severe lack of diplomacy) makes me extremely unpopular among all libs.

  192. LET IT BE KNOWN. JOHN HITCHCOCK CHOOSES ONLY INFORMATION THAT PLEASES HIM. ALL ELSE DOES NOT EXIST TO HIM. IF IT WERE UP TO HIM, OUR NATIONAL BIRD WOULD NOT BE AN EAGLE, BUT AN OSTRICH. HIS ASS IS STICKING UP EXTREMELY HIGH FOR ALL TO SEE.

    YOU WON’T LISTEN TO THE TROOPS WHO SERVED. ONLY THE ONE THAT YOU CARE ABOUT. IN OTHER WORDS, BEING DEAF, DUMB AND BLIND WORKS JUST FINE WITH YOU, SO DON’T BOTHER YOU WITH THE FACTS.

    YOU DISRESPECT OUR TROOPS!!!!!!!!!

  193. You are not popular or right.

    You are however a complete self-righteous, WILLINGLY ignorant, oblivious ass.

    You don’t give a rat’s ass what has happened to our troops.

    It’s understandable you’d care about what your daughter’s reality is, and we all here have shown we care about her experiences, but anyone else that has had a different perspective that honorably served this country, you’d just a-soon tell them to fuck themselves, you fucking bastard!!!!

  194. THANKS FOR SUPPORTING THE TROOPS.

    This conversation has devolved into a toxic stew. I’m choosing to jump out of this pot of poison, in which John Hitchcock is defecating in.

    At least those that are honest with themselves, can look at the link, those that care about all experiences of soldiers.

  195. Just to make it clear, I do not diss our troops, having been one once. I do diss the subject of my open letter, and all who blindly worship him, since he, and by extension, they deserve all the diss they get. And to make it clear, for those who refuse to remember context and my exp I have given here, I spoke to many soldiers, enlisted and officer, who have been to Iraq. And not one of them ever came close to bloviating like blu. Not one of them ever said anything bad about their Iraq time. They, to a man, said good things about being in Iraq.

    Claiming I diss the troops is as valid as claiming I am a lib.

    But, again, thanks for playing, blu. I really did enjoy playing you like a cheap violin.

  196. Yup, here’s you dissing all who serve:

    blubonnet said
    2009/04/19 at 21:09 e

    You right wingers prefer funding killing people in wars, than educating people. So, as long as the education is limited the signing up for the military is an option for many that have lacked proper education, excellent for the military industrial complex, so warned of by Dwight Eisenhower.

  197. Okay, apparently, I said that. Is inadequate education a great starter for a college based career? Not usually.

    Many join the military for a means of rising above the poorly funded school systems, when Republicans historically are ahead of a government, be it local or otherwise, because so much is spent on security, must be an innate sense of insecurity.

    Sadly, as a result, even intelligent children that have endured dysfunctional homes, where mommy is drunk much of the time, and daddy is gone out to sea, and they are in a new state this year, and someone is shy anyway, and stuck into a curriculum that was more advanced than the previous one, and being nervous over rides being attentive in school, results in often times a poor education. Now, are you going to call the person who endured that “bad” or “stupid” ? I hope not, because sometimes, that is what happens.

    Given a choice, what would most kids looking at their future prefer?

    A chance to go to a college and have a career that they may have dreamed of?

    Of course, many chose, with their hearts when they chose the military. That is laudable. I salute you. Too bad for the lies.

    You do the math, and consider what most kids standing back, looking at life would want.

    Or go to Iraq, and kill and/or be killed?

    Most who join the military do so, as a valuable career choice. A sense of value in this world is always a worthwhile thing, but I think a great many join because of having gotten stuck into a poor school systems, not their fault.

  198. At the end of my second paragraph, I meant to say that, security spending in R government historically loss of adequate funding of schools results.

  199. Apparently you said that? Is that your answer? You can’t come out and fully admit you said what is recorded for all to see? And you can’t come out and admit you said that on a thread bashing the failings of a lib-run edu-indoctrination system? You know? A thread that pointed out a much shorter school year with much fewer funds that produced much better educated children? And you want to blame Republicans for not dumping massive amounts more money down the crapper that is the liberal pub-ed system? And you still equate conservatives with Republicans, despite evidence de-linking them?

    Please, o please, great wise one who knows all (omniscient), explain how your total disregard for the histo-factual evidence on that thread for your agenda-driven purpose (as opposed to bias) fits into your goal of being taken seriously by true logisticians (apparently my word, meaning people who work in the field of logic).

    And PIATOR has repeatedly shown himself a contrarian and a socialist. And his own Prime Minister is 180 degrees opposite him. PIATOR’s own Prime Minister has said President Obama is outside his mind (not in those words, but to use a reference my daughter did, “Remember The Titans”).

  200. “John Hitchcock” calls out Blubonnet for saying the following: “You right wingers prefer funding killing people in wars, than educating people. So, as long as the education is limited the signing up for the military is an option for many that have lacked proper education, excellent for the military industrial complex, so warned of by Dwight Eisenhower.”

    You are correct, Blubonnet. The proof is the enticements for enlistments and reenlistments that the military is forced to use to keep our military adequately staffed. This is not a negative reflection on our young men and women who choose to serve, it is a reflection on the radicals who chose to plunge us into wars of aggression, then support same by offering these enticements, monetary and educational.

    Can you imagine the national chaos if we went to a draft to populate the military? The draft was a major factor causing the social disruptions that accompanied the Vietnam War, as I remember it very, very well? Our wars would end quickly!

    A message to you, Blubonnet: Don’t allow the John Hitchcock’s of this world to bait you to the point of extreme anger, which is exactly the outcome they seek. They lack any compassion for those who suffer, you have that compassion. There is nothing any of us can say to influence these jaded people. As you noted yourself, they have no interest in debating or examining the views of others. I feel compelled at times to push back at these folks, for all to see, then let the chips fall where they may for the other observers/contributors on here. There is not much more that one can do, except to hope that the push back will influence others to think more deeply about these issues.

  201. Perry wrote:

    Dana: I don’t care how much someone opposes the war in Iraq — opposition is, of course, certainly one’s right and comes under free speech protection on this site — I really, really don’t like seeing people insulted for having joined the armed services.”

    Dana, I don’t see Blubonnet’s statement as an insult to Laura at all. She is criticizing the leaders who would place Laura on a battlefield unnecessarily. In fact Blubonnet even said she admired Laura.

    Perry, she basically said that Laura had taken her decision to join the Army because she had been “abused, by deception,” into her decision; she called her a dupe.

    I am surprised that you overlooked this statement of John Hitchcock: “Dear President Obama, you are unfit to be the dog-poop extractor in a small town dog pound. And the sooner you pound sand, the better for this great country.”

    Are you this insensitive to this insult of our President, Dana?

    I agree, you’re right: Mr Hitchcock certainly erred by saying that Barack Obama is unfit to be a dog-poop extractor. Pounds and kennels do need to have people do the unpleasant work of removing animal feces from the cages and premises, and I am certain that Mr Obama is fit to do such work. Indeed, given the policies he and his administration are pursuing, I wish that Mr Obama was working in such a profession. :)

    President Obama is our President, and the Commander-in-Chief for both Mr Hitchcock’s daughter and mine. I wish that were not the case, but it is, and we have to live with it and deal with it. I usually don’t express such contempt for someone who isn’t an out-and-out felon — at least, not in public — but Mr Hitchcock is a citizen, a voter and a Marine Corps veteran, and he does have as much right to his opinion as you have to yours. Indeed, he has exactly one vote, the same as you have.

    I could, were I to make the effort, go back through some “progressive” sites and find similarly contemptuous words used to describe our 43rd President, but I needn’t: you know that they are there. It’s true enough that I found those more offensive than I found Mr Hitchcock’s in this posting, because I liked and admired President Bush, and I do not much care for President Obama. I do, however, respect our current President, because he is our President.

  202. Blu wrote:

    I would like to make something clear. I never insulted Laura for joining the military. I foolishly believed George W. Bush in the beginning. I was furious when I realized the lies that brought about a damned war. It is unconscionable to send people to fight and die, not to mention a full blown CRIME. It is out of respect for those like Laura, that I’m so peeved.

    Perhaps you never intended to insult the fine people who have enlisted in our armed services, but unfortunately, you did. I’ll chalk it up to a poor choice of words and let it go at that.

    Both Autumn and Laura took their Oaths of Enlistment when George Bush was Commander-in-Chief; both remain under obligation to obey the lawful orders of the current Commander-in-Chief, an obligation they freely accepted, and an obligation that they knew would extend well beyond Mr Bush’s term when they enlisted.

    Coincidentally enough, my daughter’s first day at BCT started with President Bush as the CinC and ended with Barack Obama holding that office, but she took her Oath the previous summer, well before the election. PFC Pico’s apartment walls are fairly bare, but one thing that is framed and mounted is her Oath.

  203. Dana, you are 100% right. Blu may not have meant to be insulting, but her comments to Laura were clearly condescending and rude. One would think that, after having this pointed out, she would have had the decency to apologize, or at least retract her comments, but she didn’t.

    The problem is Blu is so locked into her ideology that she can’t admit error, or learn anything from others. In her mindset, anyone who volunteered for the military must be a “Dupe”, and no amount of actual testimony from someone who’s actually been there will penetrate that thick skull of hers.

  204. So, have you heard the other soldiers’ testimonies yet, or do you not even care?
    http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=bjk&q=ivaw%20winter%20soldier&revid=369406135&resnum=0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

    This is exactly why I don’t use links very often, or offer up quotes from the Internet. Out of the hundreds of thousands of Iraq veterans, you’re sure to find a few who had bad experiences or are simply disgruntled for some reason. This proves what, exactly? If you had a survey or poll, done by a reputable organization, that showed widespread discontent among the Iraq troops, then you’d be on to something, but you don’t.

  205. Can you imagine the national chaos if we went to a draft to populate the military? The draft was a major factor causing the social disruptions that accompanied the Vietnam War, as I remember it very, very well? Our wars would end quickly!

    Except Vietnam did not end quickly. Indeed, it was the draft which allowed it to drag on so long, because it provided a steady supply of troops to the war, whether they wanted to be there or not. In an all-volunteer Army, troops have to be willing to serve, and in an unpopular or badly managed war like Vietnam, recruitment would tend to dry up.

    On a related note, I find it interesting that troops morale in Iraq has generally remained high, which was not the case in Vietnam. The troops over there seem to believe strongly in their mission, which tends to put the lie to the notion that they’re mere dupes, or just cannon fodder who had no other career choices in life.

  206. I’ll take the word of someone who’s actually been there over some mouse potato any day!
    You’re calling Maj. Gen. Taguba a couch potato?

    I know you’re not a complete idiot, Phooey, so it’s clear you’re being disingenuous, since obviously I was comparing Blu’s comments to Laura’s. And since she’s the only one posting here who’s actually served in Iraq, I’d say her views on the subject carry a bit more weight than some mouse potato who’s never served and yet posts her gibberish for all to see.

  207. This proves what, exactly? If you had a survey or poll, done by a reputable organization, that showed widespread discontent among the Iraq troops, then you’d be on to something, but you don’t.

    Like this from 2006?

    “An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows.”

  208. Eric said: This is exactly why I don’t use links very often, or offer up quotes from the Internet. Out of the hundreds of thousands of Iraq veterans, you’re sure to find a few who had bad experiences or are simply disgruntled for some reason. This proves what, exactly? If you had a survey or poll, done by a reputable organization, that showed widespread discontent among the Iraq troops, then you’d be on to something, but you don’t.
    Fact is, legally, when one becomes property of the US government, they are NOT ALLOWED to speak up against the war! Freedom of speech is lost in the military.

    Another point. Why is it that Laura’s experience is the only one that is “valid”?

    You don’t need to tell me that many join for altruistic reasons. I’ve got family members whose lives have been the military. My father for one. I have immense respect for him. Does he buy into the BS? Yes he does, sadly FOX is his network for “tuning in” where kool-aid spiked with fear is imbibed. It’s much more fun to have dramas about the “terrorists” than to acknowledge that as history has shown, war profiteers control belief systems. I’ve chosen not to EVER talk politics with him again, because I don’t want to end up fighting vehemently with him, as I do here. He knows I don’t disrespect the troops. He knows I’m passionate about their well being.

    He is presently in the Veteran’s home right now, having made it through a heart operation, in which he nearly died from complications. During surgery, the tissue around his heart was not strong enough to hold the sutures. Blood started squirting out. The doctor used a different method of sealing up the wound, a glue, basically. This had happened to this remarkable cardiac surgeon 4 other times in his career, and the patients died on the operating table. My father is 81. We were all a wreck worrying if he would make it through. They kept him unconscious for over two weeks in ICU. Just recovering from THAT has been an enormous challenge though. He’s doing very well now though, and since that long a time not moving, his muscles atrophied into uselessness. He’s having to start over, like a baby, basically relearning his muscles to do what they are meant to do. He won the hearts of all the staff. 15 or so of them were at the door to say good bye to him when he left the hospital.

    I would like to apologize to Dana, for having become outraged at JH, and cursing, in my ugly outburst. The narrow vision of JH, which supports the deaths of so many innocent human beings sometimes is more than I can take.

    I will also apologize for the “insult” taken by some. I’m quite sure I’ve clarified my position MANY times on this thread though. My compliments toward Laura, and Autumn for some reason get unrecognized by those that for some reason prefer to assume they are insults.

    Another important point…I have said repeatedly, that I believed GWB as well, so, I guess I was insulting myself, as well as the troops. I was defending their position, having been tossed into the hornet’s nest for no good reason. A potentially deadly situation, and you all are a-okay with the possibility of their deaths, despite the deception (which we all were victim to)??? That’s really supporting the troops….NOT!

    For your information, the scenario of the kid who has moved many many times, stuck in a new school again, having dealt with awkwardness, and getting a poor education, from skipping around to a half dozen schools, scrambling their education was me. I didn’t join the military. However, that would have been an option for me, because no way was I going to make it into a college. There. I insulted myself.

  209. Ha! Substitute “Eric” for “Blu” in the following post by Eric, so perhaps Eric can see how HE comes across sometimes: “Dana, you are 100% right. Blu [Eric] may not have meant to be insulting, but her [his] comments to Laura [the blog] were clearly condescending and rude. One would think that, after having this pointed out, she [Eric] would have had the decency to apologize, or at least retract her [his] comments, but she [he] didn’t [doesn't].

    The problem is Blu [Eric] is so locked into her [his] ideology that she [he] can’t admit error, or learn anything from others. In her [his] mindset, anyone who volunteered for [opposes] the military must be a “Dupe”, and no amount of actual testimony from someone who’s [who hasn't] actually been there will penetrate that thick skull of hers [his].”

  210. Perry said: Give me just one quote where someone has said that “freedom just does not count”.

    I said:Mark Lloyd is the Federal Communications Commission (FCC)’s Chief Diversity Officer, a.k.a. the Diversity Czar.

    A government official saying freedom of speech, freedom of the press — not so much. Is that a quote saying freedom doesn’t count?

    I gave a quote of Lloyd’s that can be found in the link. And I added more snippets of Lloyd’s words in another comment.

    Perry then went on to directly attack me without answering my response to his challenge, and he did it in several comments. Perry used intellectually vacuous reasoning to claim my position of Conservative Christian contrasted with my stated hierarchical position, which I blew out of the water (using facts).

    After my daughter’s glorious fact-filled beat-down was over, I returned to this topic, asking Perry to respond.

    Perry has yet to respond. I wonder why that is. To borrow from blu, is it due to cowardice? Or, to borrow from PIATOR, is Perry just an idiot?

    And no, Perry, I don’t think you’re an idiot, that was bashing one of your pals and not you. I have no diplomatic skills and will never claim otherwise, so my heavy-handed approach to you (who frequently, but not always, try to debate honestly) shouldn’t be considered full-on diss. Just half diss. Blu and PIATOR, on the other hand, deserve the full-on diss they get.

    Back to the point: I am still waiting for your response to my answer to your challenge. You appear to be avoiding it like the plague.

  211. Another point. Why is it that Laura’s experience is the only one that is “valid”?

    Because she’s the only one posting here who’s BEEN THERE! I thus respect and give credence to her views far more than someone like yourself who has not.

  212. Re: Like this from 2006?

    Nice link, Pho. I clicked it on and got this:

    Opinion of Bill Clinton continues to fall

    The overall opinion of Bill Clinton continued its downward trend, a new Zogby America survey reveals.

    Well, at least you have found something online that I can finally agree with. Thanks!

  213. He is presently in the Veteran’s home right now, having made it through a heart operation, in which he nearly died from complications. During surgery, the tissue around his heart was not strong enough to hold the sutures. Blood started squirting out. The doctor used a different method of sealing up the wound, a glue, basically. This had happened to this remarkable cardiac surgeon 4 other times in his career, and the patients died on the operating table. My father is 81. We were all a wreck worrying if he would make it through. They kept him unconscious for over two weeks in ICU. Just recovering from THAT has been an enormous challenge though. He’s doing very well now though, and since that long a time not moving, his muscles atrophied into uselessness. He’s having to start over, like a baby, basically relearning his muscles to do what they are meant to do. He won the hearts of all the staff. 15 or so of them were at the door to say good bye to him when he left the hospital.

    I’m sorry to hear this, and hope he recovers OK. This must be a stressful time for all of you. I will put him in my prayers.

  214. OK, John Hitchcock, I checked your link to Mark Lloyd, to wit: ” “It should be clear by now that my focus here is not freedom of speech or the press. This freedom is all too often an exaggeration. At the very least, blind references to freedom of speech or the press serve as a distraction from the critical examination of other communications policies.

    “[T]he purpose of free speech is warped to protect global corporations and block rules that would promote democratic governance.”"

    I don’t get from this that Lloyd thinks that “freedom does not count”. He is stating his focus on “communication policies”. On his comment regarding the SCOTUS interpretation of the First Amendment to consider a corporation to have the same rights to free speech that an individual has, that interpretation troubles me. I question whether the founders had corporations in mind when they wrote the Bill of Rights. This interpretation has had a corrupting influence on both Congress and election campaigns.

  215. I strongly believe the founding fathers indeed had corporations in mind, along with private citizens, when they wrote the first amendment. They had newspaper corporations in mind, most definitely, which means they had corporations in mind.

  216. And, Perry, I am gonna throw out the “that’s different” line. Because you used it when you basically said corporations do not have free speech rights so they don’t count in your challenge. (Basically said, not outright said)

  217. Besides, what is a corporation, other than a group of individuals exercising their constitutional freedom of association rights?

    No, John, that’s a partnership. A corporation is something else. Partnership does not equal corporation, John. Do the words “limited liability” mean anything to you, John?

  218. I strongly believe the founding fathers indeed had corporations in mind, along with private citizens, when they wrote the first amendment.

    Then you’re showing yourself to be a bigger fool than normal.

    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” — Thomas Jefferson

  219. I know, I know, I’m sick of these too. But they have been presented many times and STILL have not yet become part of your understanding:

    JAMES MADISON: “The growing wealth acquired by them(corporations) never fails to be a source of abuses.”

    ABRAHAM LINCOLN, in a letter to his friend, Col. William Elkins, Nov.24th,1864: “I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country…corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the republic is destroyed.”

    WILLIAM O. DOUGLAS, Associate Justice of the United States 1939-1975: “Those in power are blind devotees to private enterprise. They accept that degree of socialism implicit in the vast subsidies to the military industrial complex, but not the that type of socialsm which maintains public projects for the disemployed and the unemployed alike.”

    Incidentally, thank you, Eric for your kind words for my father. He’s doing much better now, by the way.

  220. Perry, I get where you are coming from, about Eric, not admitting to error, while accusing me of that, but, I must say that I know Eric WAS in the military. I agree with you about the rest though. (Sorry Eric, but it’s true.)

  221. Phoenician: ““The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” — Thomas Jefferson”

    This comment by a revered American, and adding the three that Blubonnet cited, have given us fair warning about possible abuses of corporations. President Ike further warned about the dangers of the military-industrial complex. We have heeded none of it, which has brought us to the sorry state we now find ourselves re money and wars.

    In effect, our corporations have taken over our government. Obama has set out to change this stranglehold.

    We can help to change this, but our right wing ideologue friends need to take a second look at what they are doing, while all of us tighten our belts for the long haul ahead, and work to take back our government.

    For homeland security, more than any time since WWII, we depend on alliances in order to keep terrorists minded extremists in check. President Obama, obviously, is well aware of that and is acting upon it, as we have seen in the last few weeks.

  222. John Hitchcock, Phoenician has shown you, on the subject of corporations and the First Amendment, that knowledge supersedes opinion. Corporations were non-existent when the Bill of Rights was generated.

    Thus, the idea that Corporations should have the same free speech rights as individuals is at least questionable, actually wrong-headed, in my view. The consequences are enormously unfortunate with regard to helping to enable corporate special interests to dominate our Congress and political campaigns. Whatever the causes, we can argue about that, the domination is simply a fact about which we can all agree. The Right wants to increase this domination, it seems!

  223. John Hitchcock, Phoenician has shown you, on the subject of corporations and the First Amendment, that knowledge supersedes opinion. Corporations were non-existent when the Bill of Rights was generated.

    They did exist (think East India Company), but nowhere like the corporations as we understand them today. Their charters were for limited periods of time, they could and were revoked if the corporation broke the law, they could only engage in activities relevant to their charter, they couldn’t own other corporations, and their shareholders weren’t protected from the consequences of them breaking the law.

    On this point, I would like to note the story that the anti_ACORN bill passed by Congress potentially requires them to defund any corporation engaging in fraud. Which includes all the defense contractors…

  224. Appreciate your refinement on the corporation issue, Phoenician, and your comment about entities engaged in fraud, as yet not charged let alone punished.

  225. In effect, our corporations have taken over our government. Obama has set out to change this stranglehold.

    What, by having government take over corporations? It’s interesting that the free marketers here like Dana and myself have opined that GM, Chrysler, and others should have been left to sink or swim, whereas the “Liberals” here are apparently for more corporate welfare. Dana is a Ford guy, and seems to respect the fact that, alone among the Big Three, it is surviving without government bailouts. I buy Honda’s, and they too don’t need handouts from Uncle Sucker.

    Really, Perry, if you are truly against corporations and government getting in bed with each other, then you should oppose Obama’s various takeover schemes.

  226. This comment by a revered American, and adding the three that Blubonnet cited, have given us fair warning about possible abuses of corporations. President Ike further warned about the dangers of the military-industrial complex. We have heeded none of it, which has brought us to the sorry state we now find ourselves re money and wars.

    I never bought into that crap about the “Military industrial complex”, and thought Ike was going senile when he said it. I’ve worked in the defense industry, and they’ve delivered some amazing products over the years, starting with the WW 2 era B-17 and the P-51 Mustang, the planes that helped beat the Nazis into submission. There was the Boeing B-47, a revolutionary design, the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter, the F-4 Phantom (arguably the most versatile jet fighter of all time), the Stealth fighter, and on and on. Unlike most of the rest of government spending, the defense industry actually delivers cutting edge products that make our military more effective and, through the use of advanced technology, help save our troops lives. So, please don’t dis the defense industry for being “Evil” or “Greedy” because, quite honestly, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

  227. “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” — Thomas Jefferson

    Jefferson was certainly a great (if flawed) man, but his vision for America was of an agrarian economy and, unlike Hamilton, he seemed unable to embrace the reality of the Industrial Revolution. And of course, no mention by Tom that his farmers paradise (at least in the South) would be built on the backs of slaves.

  228. Besides, what is a corporation, other than a group of individuals exercising their constitutional freedom of association rights?

    Good point. Groups band together to lobby all the time. How different is a corporate (for profit) lobby than, say, lobbying done by the NRA or Planned Parenthood? All of them want to use their collective influence to affect government policy. Indeed, the only way to cut back on the power of lobbyists is to cut back on the size and power of government. But liberals don’t want to do that.

  229. PS Congrats to John Hitchcock. This is the 290th comment on this thread. I don’t know if that sets a record for CSPT, but if not, it surely comes close!

  230. I’m on a different computer now, but it seems that my own computer at home, I encountered a big black screen at the end of this thread, instead of the ongoing thread. I’m wondering if it was Dana or John Hitchcock that would be the one to make that happen, considering this is John Hitchcock’s piece. ? Would that be considered being blackballed?

  231. Keeping people out of conversations that expose you, by facts that don’t make you look good, is dirty. Not honest debate.

  232. Blu, rest assured I have done nothing to blackball you. I have recently delved into the black hole that is the spam filter (more than 10-1 ratio spam-to-real comment) to pull PIATOR’s drivel out when he commented he lost comments. Quite honestly, I consider you and PIATOR both too fruity to blackball.

    And even if I did blackball you, you would still have a “leave a comment” section (to the best of my knowledge) but your comments would go directly to spam. I don’t know the ins and outs of being banned but others who post here do (by being banned from other blogs, not this one), so they can better explain what a banning looks like.

    EDIT: From the additional access side: Akismet has caught 635,381 spam for you since you first installed it.

  233. Eric, thanks. When I look at the number of comments and take into consideration the content of the first comment, it makes my vest buttons fly across the room, as it were. ;) I think the sheer number of adversarial commentary answered that query. And I do thank all those who stood up to be counted in defense of “something of value in the article.”

  234. For clarity’s sake, I will never blackball a commenter on a site that is not my own. There may come a time when I actively lobby for blackballing someone on a site that is not my own, but I will never do the deed myself. It is not my place and would be a violation of the trust put in me by the person who granted me access.

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