The situation is much more depressing for those who live in the rural area of our region as utility poles were snapped in half by the weight of the ice all over far Western Kentucky. In fact our local paper reported this morning utility workers with direct Katrina experience are saying the devastation to our power grid is worst than Hurricane Katrina:
“The word from utility workers with direct Katrina experience is that ice storm devastation to western Kentucky’s power grid is worse than that inflicted by the infamous Gulf Coast hurricane.
“We’ve got linemen here from southern Mississippi who were there when Katrina hit, who worked the area after the hurricane,” said Kevin Inglish, a spokesman for West Kentucky Rural Electric Cooperative Corp.”
What stands [out] to me [is that] there [are] no news anchors from any of the Big 3 or any cable news channel including Fox News; No Sheperd Smith or Greta or any satellite trucks to document the devastation or two hour gas lines or the mad rush for generators at Home Depot.
Unfortunately they also won’t document that no one is crying for the federal government or FEMA as everyone is just taking care of business without them thank you very much…
Where are the cries from liberals about the ineptitude of the feds to take care of this? Isn’t it Barack Obama’s fault? Why aren’t we hearing about giving everybody ATM cards so they can go buy drugs and hookers? Mass migrations to other states? Hmm.
Are your houses off their foundations? Are people drowning? I love how conservatives are trying to immediately pin everything wrong in the country on a man who has been in office 2 weeks. Seriously weak arguments.
Try surviving in 22 degree temps with no power and for many no heat. 55 deaths related to this storm with half in Kentucky and relief is far from over but AP sure is cheerleading for FEMA:
FEMA gets decent marks for its ice storm responseBy ROGER ALFORD – 1 day ago
EDDYVILLE, Ky. (AP) — In the first real test of the Obama administration’s ability to respond to a disaster, Kentucky officials are giving the federal government good marks for its response to a deadly ice storm.
Yet more than 300,000 residents remained without power Monday and some areas had yet to see aid workers nearly a week after the storm, a fact not lost on some local authorities.
“We haven’t seen FEMA. They haven’t been here,” said Jaime Green, a spokeswoman for the emergency operations center in Lyon County, about 95 miles northwest of Nashville, Tenn.
Brocton Oglesby, director of emergency management in Hopkins County, said he has seen virtually no contribution from FEMA in the county, where more than half of the 27,000 homes remained without electricity.
Oglesby’s seen FEMA show up after other disasters to assess the damages and write checks. Beshear asked for FEMA to have a role on the front end this time, though, and Oglesby said that hasn’t happened.
This is all from the same AP article— a contradiction if I ever saw one.
David,
Is drowning a worse way to die than freezing? Is having a house that is uninhabitable better than having a house ripped from its foundations?
Everything that happens in the U.S. is now Obama’s responsibility. You guys made these rules & we’re just living with them.
“Is drowning a worse way to die than freezing? Is having a house that is uninhabitable better than having a house ripped from its foundations?”
Well, less than half of houses are heated by electricity to begin with. Second, no heat is very different than NO HOUSE AT ALL. Also, no heat does not mean uninhabitable. It is bad for houses to drop below 50 or so, but it’s not going to fall over. This is also a rural versus urban issue. New Orleans has over a million people in their metro area. But lets not forget Katrina was a statewide disaster, Louisiana has over 4 million residents. It also effected areas of Mississippi. So lets just estimate that at least 5 million people faced hardship from it. A significant portion of that population lost everything they own, their jobs, houses, etc.
To say that a power outage is an emergency tantamount to Katrina is truly a sad and disrespectful comment to make, especially for the purpose of a political jab. I helped gut homes a year after the storm and the place was still hell. It looked like the storm hit the week before. It’s too bad that Kentucky had an ice storm, but being from Minnesota I can’t sympathize too much. This will pass, get over it.
Oh yeah, and over 2,000 people died in Katrina.
David, this just out: Ice begins to melt at 32 degrees. The ice storm that devastated parts of Kentucky and Arkansas was a storm consisting of ice. Gas furnaces use electric thermostats to turn on. People with frozen pipes get water straight out of creeks since no water is getting to them.
“Gas furnaces use electric thermostats to turn on.”
Good point, but still, I have friends who go camping in that weather (truthfully). It’s not exactly instantaneous-death weather. On the other hand if it were negative 30 like it was here a couple weeks ago it would be concerning.
It is interesting that I haven’t heard anything about this on the national news.
It is interesting that I haven’t heard anything about this on the national news.
It is interesting indeed, and very much to the point of one of our main issues.
Then again, there wasn’t very much national coverage of the floods in SE Minnesota last year, that destroyed thousands of homes.
I’m sure the people afflicted by this issue can apply for federal assistance, file insurance claims, etc. They’ll probably even get compensated, unlike Katrina victims.
The entire Kentucky National Guard and portions of the Kentucky Air National Guard were called up. Last I heard, no FEMA in sight. It may have changed.
FOX News reports FEMA assistant director arrived in Kentucky yesterday, 9 days after ice storm that caused 100 counties to declare state of emergency.
A hurricane AND a flood equal two disasters, instead of one.
But none of it should be trivialized.
It’s still Obama’s fault.
“FOX News reports FEMA assistant director arrived in Kentucky yesterday, 9 days after ice storm”
FEMA director appointed days before ice storm….
“But none of it should be trivialized.”
Agreed.
Obama inherited FEMA that had been transformed into another military operation. (Research it yourself!) Less than a month into office is insufficient time to rebuild all that Bush’s war profiteering agenda destroyed.
It’s sort of like a landlord trying to move into a place that a bunch of barely drinking age kids occupied, after partying for years, leaving all sheetrock needing replacement, from walls being punched in, and floor boards penetrated with cat urine, carpet needing replacement, and a stench that is unbelievable. Only blood is saturating that carpet as well, from a genocidal policy leaving hundreds of thousands of innocnet human being dead, from a war based on lies, and of course bills up the ying yang, as any irresponsible, post teen-age self-indulgent party animal young adult would do. This does not condemn all of that age, by the way, only the ones in the aforementioned category. I’ve got friends that own multiple rental properties, the subject of this appropriate analogy, and have heard of such damages that bring to mind Bush’s rotting, despicable messes.
Speaking of “rotting”, hundreds of swollen corpses were floating around in the waters of New Orleans after Bush’s FEMA was in place. Defend that, Sharon.
Defend what, blu? That the worst hurricane in 100 years hit New Orleans and the mayor and governor were too incompetent to get the citizens evacuated in a safe and timely manner? Shouldn’t YOU be defending that? Frankly, blu, most conversations with you are despicable. At what point is anything that happens Obama’s responsibility, eh? Because don’t try to say you weren’t bashing President Bush from Inauguration Day 2001.
So, Sharon, I suppose that Obama should have everything in place in three weeks of taking office, huh? According to you?
The reason the Katrina disaster was worse than it was, since such a disaster IS the responsibility of the federal government, AND, while the levies were funded by Clinton, prior, and absolutely necessary, sincde it was understood by all, that the liklihood of a hurricane causing a flood, was high, Bush chose to eliminate the funding despite the desperate begging of those in Louisiana. AND, Bush had plenty of time to respond prior, because letters were sent in advance from the governor. He decided instead to go eat birthday cake with John McCain.
The reason conversations with me are despicable, Sharon, is because I bring up horrible things, you excuse and/or ignore. Dead people disgust you, and you don’t want to talk about, look at, or acknowledge that your beloved party made it happen, piling up bodies with each and everything they touch. FEMA being in its dreadfully sorry state is BUSH’s fault. Now, it is Obama, responsibility to fix it, along with innumerable other catastrophes Bush left in his wake.
Blu,
I’ve stated repeatedly that I am giving Obama exactly the same credit as people like you gave President Bush, which means none. So, from January 20, 2009, it is all his fault, his blame, his incompetence, his to command and direct. I won’t call him evil, I won’t compare him to Stalin or Hitler, and I won’t call for his impeachment, which is more than people like you have done. And, of course, President Bush actually tried to prepare Obama for being president through the daily briefings, conferences, meetings, procedures, etc. set up to make the transition easier. Unlike President Bush’s predecessor.
Sorry, blu, a hurricane isn’t the federal government’s responsibility in the hours preceding the event and the hours afterwards. Those were the hours that it was the responsibility of the mayor of New Orleans and governor of Louisiana to get their citizens out and take care of those who didn’t. Believe it or not, there are actual procedures in place for requesting assistance from FEMA, procedures the Democrats in Louisiana didn’t follow and didn’t want to follow. This isn’t even including the incompetence of Democrat rule in Louisiana concerning the maintenance of the levees.
The reason “conversations” with you are despicable, blu, is that you have a cartoonishly naive view of how life works, where Republicans wear black hats and Democrats wear white ones, where President Bush is some comic book evil villain who is responsible for natural disasters and who plots to destroy American landmarks and kill our own people. Crackpots like you deserve to be derided for screaming that YouTube videos and “documentaries” are truth, when common sense and intellgence lead to other, less exotic, less exciting conclusions.
Your boy is running things, blu. Everything that happens is his fault. Those are the rules you guys put in place and those are the rules you will be forced to live by.
Blu,
I’ve stated repeatedly that I am giving Obama exactly the same credit as people like you gave President Bush, which means none. So, from January 20, 2009, it is all his fault, his blame, his incompetence, his to command and direct
You have to understand, blubonnet, that for wingnuts, it has nothing to do with actual actions. Liberal dislike for Bush has nothing to do with torture, with invasion, with violation of privacy and economic incompetance. Rather, it is all personal, and when they spew hatred at Obama regardless of anything he actually does, to their minds it is all the same thing.
There’s just something about Obama that colours their perceptions of him, that blackens their views on him, lends a dark hue to their interpretations of what he does, that encourages them to be niggerdly in their praise, and to crack the whip in heaping criticism.
Can’t figure out what that might be…
Sorry, Sharon, but Obama is working with what the one that preceded him handed him, until he has time to rebuild everything into place, and in case you haven’t noticed, what he has to clean up, and reform is huge. Bush put massive $$$ indto defense, stripping other government programs like FEMA, and the funding for the levies, which Clinton had done. Why can’t you see that which is obvious?
Common sense, humanity, and democratic principles are what I base my judgements on.
The dramatic view I see in the contrast of those values, in the last 8 years, is due to the fact that there has been a dramatic discarding of those principles, and the devaluing of human life, and devaluing of democratic principles. I don’t need to put on any type of attitude that alters my perspective, I have basic respect for principles I learned in elementary school, regarding U.S. democratic values, didn’t you? The previous administration, with its horrific deceptive practice, all the while, directly profiting from their private investments into oil and defense, at the expense of hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings, whose bodies have been permanently maimed, or totally destroyed, devastating American families, and Iraqi families, is thoroughly egregious, ghastly, and heartbreaking. It is not something like lying about a blow-job, apparently many in the R party’s reasoning for impeachment. And, Sharon, war crimes, lots of them, lying about going to war, trashing our Constitution, and Bill of Rights, is nothing trivial, it’s very worthy of impeachment, if ever there was a reason to impeach, those loss of lives for a lie is enough for me and most Americans. Frankly, I can’t understand why you are okay with the actual (by all legal definitions) multiple crimes of the Bush administration. It isn’t outrageous to expect impeachment hearings when NUMEROUS war crimes took place, while advocating for an imperial presidency. Those are facts, not drama.
And, yes, the buses should have been brought into the picture to save lives in the Katrina case, because, after a certain point, when FEMA’s responsibility, at the Federal level, was absent, waiting for them to do their job, wasn’t working. The question is then, was it too late by then? However, if Bush hadn’t altered the FEMA that Clinton had in place, the Federal government could have saved those hundreds of lives.
Blu wrote:
Well, Blu, I think it’s a little bit early to talk about impeaching President Obama.
It was President Obama you meant, I assume, since George Bush is already out of office. For all you wrote about trashing democracy and the Constitution, I noticed that, when their terms ended, President Bush and Vice President Cheney turned over their offices to their duly-elected successors.
Dana, all chuckles aside, I was responding to Sharon’s statement that us on the left, specifically me, is outrageous to suggest Bush be impeached, when actually, it was quite reasonable he should be. And, I’m delighted to have a new president, and I even tire of myself discussing Bush. But, my disgust and rightful dissent of the man, GWB remains justified. That is all I was saying.
Yeah, Bush, and Cheney were probably so tired of be despised, they welcomed the exit door.
Actually though, some had been saying, that if there was an attempt to bring the scoundrels to account for what they had done, THEN, the “legal right” (sigh) they provided themselves to declare martial law, may very well be implemented, which was a threat to our much awaited exit of the scoundrel in chief. You DO know about that, don’t you, Dana, the whim of declaring martial law was taken by them. But, speculation is all we have. Who knows, really, what would have happened if impeachment proceeding had started. I do know though, that even the Dems held back on beginning proceedings. However, now that he is out of office, Conyers and Levin have drawn up a 374 page documenting what occurred, in hopes of bringing justice. The document is titled: Riegning in the Imperial Presidency of George W. Bush.
By the way, I was not one saying, he would not leave office, although, considering all the liberties they took, while steadily making our decline, nothing would have surprised me regarding the Bush crime family.
Pho, only an idiot would think that the only reason to oppose Obama is race. But then, I guess I have to look at who is talking.
Blu,
I believe in democratic values. I also believe that, in a time of war such as we are in and have been in for many, many years, that government actions to protect the people are justified and necessary. That includes making you take your shoes off at the airport and wiretapping terrorists’ phonecalls. I also don’t mind keeping dangerous men, men who want to kill more Americans and will do so if given the opportunity, from carrying out their desires. I’ve lived under administrations whose sole response to attacks on Americans and American interests has been to call it a law enforcement issue as opposed to acts of war. And guess what? We’ve had 7 1/2 years without a single attack on America or Americans overseas. No hijackings. No bombings. No Americans killed and thrown into the ocean. Given the last 3 decades, that’s an impressive record and one Obama should hope to continue.
Oddly, I don’t see you calling for Obama’s impeachment. It’s strange, really. He voted for FISA and has already decided to continue many of President Bush’s policies with respect to terrorists. Why, instead of endlessly blathering about the eeeeevile George Bush, you don’t turn your vitriol on the new president isn’t beyond me. It’s perfectly obvious: you will excuse in a Democrat what you excoriate in a Republican. That’s despicable.
As for New Orleans, if the mayor and governor weren’t concerned about their own constituents, I suggest you preserve your venom for them. They were, after all, the ones responsible for evacuating the city. But, as Democrats do, they looked for someone else to blame and accused those they blamed of racism. Oh, yes. It’s always racism.
Sharon, While Obama is continuing SOME of Bush’s policies, the full assortment of hideous horrors is not being continued.
Hey, look what I came across: GEORGE ORWELL’S 1984.
“And in the general hardening of outlook that set in… practice which had long had been abandonment – imprisonment without trial, the use of war prisoners as slaves, public executions, torture to extract confessions… and the deporting of whole populations – not only became common again, but were tolerated and even defended by people who considered themselves enlightened and progressive.”
Yes, Phoe, it seems difficult to convey that it is about violations of human beings, and democracy we are against, not just Bush because he is an R. Thier perspective on us, kind of makes you think of the word “projection”.
Well, Blu, I think it’s a little bit early to talk about impeaching President Obama.
It was President Obama you meant, I assume, since George Bush is already out of office.
This is true. Charges of crimes against humanity can be drawn up against Bush and Chaney without the need for impeachment, just like Milosevic.
Sharon, regarding, the abiding of government to omit our laws in favor of “keeping us safe” and “protecting our freedoms” in times of war, consider how often we are or have been at war:
American Wars
The American Revolution
1775-1783
The Indian Wars
1775-1890
Shay’s Rebellion
1786-1787
Rebellion
Anti-(state)Government Rebels vs. Massachusetts
The Whiskey Rebellion
1794
Rebellion
Anti-Tax Rebels in Western Pennsylvania
Quasi-War With France
1798-1800
Inter-State (Naval) War
France
Fries’s Rebellion “The Hot Water War”
1799
Rebellion
Anti-Tax Rebels in Pennsylvania
The Barbary Wars
1800-1815
Inter-State War
The Barbary States
(Tripoli, Algiers & Morocco)
The War of 1812
1812-1815
Inter-State War
Great Britain
The Growing & Troubled Republic
Primary Name of Conflict Dates of Conflict
(U.S. Involvement Only)
Type of Conflict Primary Opponent(s)
of the United States
Mexican-American War
1846-1848
Inter-State War
Mexico
U.S. Slave Rebellions
1800-1865
Slave Rebellions
Various Slave groups
“Bleeding Kansas”
1855-1860
Civil War (state of Kansas)
Pro-Slavery vs. Anti-Slavery Kansans
Brown’s Raid on Harper’s Ferry
1859
Rebellion
Anti-Slavery Rebels (Led by John Brown)
United States Civil War
1861-1865
Civil War
United States (The North)
vs.
The Confederate States (The South)
U.S. Intervention in Hawaiian Revolution
1893
Internal Rebellion & Foreign Intervention
The Spanish-American War
1898
Inter-State War
U.S. Intervention in Samoan Civil War
1898-1899
Civil War & Foreign Intervention
U.S.-Philippine War
1899-1902
Colonial War, War of Imperialism
Boxer Rebellion
1900
Internal Rebellion & Foreign Intervention
Chinese Government & “Boxer” Rebels
The Moro Wars
1901-1913
Colonial Wars
Philippine Muslim Rebels
U.S. Intervention in Panamanian Revolution
1903
Secessionist Revolution & Foreign Intervention
Colombia
The Banana Wars
1909-1933
Civil Wars & Foreign Intervention
Various Rebel Groups In Central America
U.S. Occupation of Vera Cruz
1914
Inter-State War
Mexico
Pershing’s Raid Into Mexico
1916-1917
Inter-State, Border War
Mexican Government & Mexican Rebels (“Bandits”)
World War I
1917-1918 (American involvement only)
Inter-State War
Germany
Allied Intervention in Russian Civil War
1919-1921
Civil War & Foreign Intervention
Russian Bolshevik (Soviet) Government
World War II
1941-1945 (American involvement only)
Inter-State War
Germany, Japan & Italy
The Cold War
1945-1991
Global Inter-State Cold War
The Soviet Union & Communist China
The Korean War
1950-1953
Inter-State War
North Korea & China
The Second Indochina War “Vietnam War”
1956-1975
Civil War, Inter-State War
North Vietnam & South Vietnamese “Viet Cong” Rebels
U.S. Intervention in Lebanon
1958
Civil War & Foreign Intervention
No real foe for U.S. Troops landed to support Lebanon Gov.
Dominican Intervention
1965
Civil War & Foreign Intervention
Rebels in the Dominican Republic
The Mayaguez Rescue Operation
News Story 1975 (May 15)
Hostage Rescue & Inter-State Conflict
Khmer Rouge Guerrillas (the new government of Cambodia)
Iranian Hostage Rescue “Desert One” or “Operation Eagle Claw”
1980 (April 25)
Hostage Rescue & Inter-State Conflict
Iran
U.S. Libya Conflict
1981, 1986
Inter-State War
Libya
U.S. Intervention in Lebanon
1982-1984
Civil War,Foreign Intervention & Inter-State War
Syria & Various Muslim and Leftist Lebanese Militias
U.S. Invasion of Grenada
1983
Inter-State War
Marxist Grenadian Faction & Cuba
The Tanker War
“Operation Earnest Will”
1987-1988
Inter-State War
Iran
U.S. Invasion of Panama
1989
Inter-State War
Panama
Second Persian Gulf War “Operation Desert Storm”
1991
Inter-State War
Iraq
“No-Fly Zone” War
1991-2003
Inter-State War
Iraq
U.S. Intervention in Somalia
1992-1994
Civil War & Foreign Intervention
Various Somali Militias
NATO Intervention in Bosnia (Operation Deliberate Force) Summary
1994-1995
Civil War,Foreign Intervention & Inter-State War
Bosnian Serb Rebels
U.S. Occupation of Haiti
1994
Foreign Intervention
Haitian Government
U.S. Embassy bombings and strikes on Afghanistan and Sudan (The bin Laden War)
August, 1998
Terrorist Conflict
“Desert Fox” Campaign (part of U.S./Iraq Conflict)
December, 1998
Inter-State War
Iraq
Kosovo War
1999
Civil War, Foreign Intervention & Inter-State War
Yugoslavia/Serbia
Attack on the USS Cole
October 12, 2000
Terrorist Conflict
Terrorists associated with Osama bin Laden
Attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon
September 11, 2001
Terrorist Conflict
Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaida organization
Afghanistan War (Operation Enduring Freedom)
October 7, 2001-Present
War against Terrorism
The Taliban and Osama bin Laden’s Al-Qaida organization
Third Persian Gulf War “Operation Iraqi Freedom”
March 19, 2003-Present
Inter-State War
Iraq
Blu,
You really don’t want to start quoting from 1984, because nearly every word of the section on Newspeak describes liberal thought. Keep in mind that Orwell was no fan of communism and socialism, two things you seem to either embrace or dismiss as unimportant.
And while a degree of your hatred for George Bush is, indeed, personal (virtually every argument you make contains ad hominem attacks, for example), I fully understand that your hatred for Republicans is ideological, as well. It’s really too bad that you don’t go somewhere where your “thought” is more appreciated. Say, the 9/11 truther site or Pandagon.
All I am advocating for is democracy. 1984 warns of things we have been living through, by way of Bush. 1984 is commonly referred to when discussing the Bush cabal.
And your bringing up 911-truth is a subject you have no right to bring up, because you refuse to look at statements and video documentation, of:
hundreds of architects,
structural engineers,
firefighters,
professors,
military intelligence,
numerous former CIA,
former NSA,
former FBI director,
former Bush administration officials,
Congress people,
family survivors of 911,
investigative journalists,
NIST whistle blower,
aviation professionals,
Pentagon workers,
former Republican administration officials,
public officials from around the world,
former NASA official,
and many many others that choose objectivity over fear of wearing a tin-foil hat, those not afraid of ridicule, but committed to morality and honoring the truth. But you’ll keep covering your eyes, I’m assuming.
By the way a most recent development has a presently operating FBI official having publicly acknowledging in a letter that the Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth have made credible observations (from thier professional position of observation) of the existence of explosives in all three buildings that went down. Yeah really.
If anyone out there wants a look at the enormous (and growing) list of professionals acknowledging the facts:
patriotsquestion911.com/
There is an abundance of videos at the bottom of that very loooong screen with the growing list of proffessionals having scrutinezed every aspect of that day also. I am NOT going to start debating this. I’ve done it already. You are either willing to look at the facts presented or not.
Sharon, if you want a clear idea of what methods Bush has used, if you have the objectivity and emotional fortitude, go over to the “Heil Obama” piece, and see the clip I left there. Or make some disparaging remark, like you usually do.
Wow. I didn’t expect to see a conspiracy theorist hanging out here. That does explain some of the stuff, though.
Wow, I don’t expect anyone cares about facts, visual documentation, credible witnesses, professional opinions, if they start negating it.
Oh, Sharon, did you have the courage to see the video clip I left on the “Heil Obama” article? Maybe that will give you some perspective.
All I am advocating for is democracy. 1984 warns of things we have been living through, by way of Bush. 1984 is commonly referred to when discussing the Bush cabal.
No, blu. You’re not advocating democracy. You’re advocating crackpot theories by insane people. You, my dear, are a nut. A certifiable nut. Now, you may be a nice nut IRL, but in cyberspace you are a lunatic who screams because nobody here wants to join your tinfoil hat society on Facebook and call for the impeachment/assassination/execution of George W. Bush for the variety of perceived crimes you guys believe happened. You think the government actually brought down the WTC and killed our own citizens. You think George Bush sent our troops into Iraq and Afghanistan, not because Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator who had violated every agreement for the end of the first Gulf War, nor to fight terrorism. No, you think it was just to enrich himself and his friends.
If we look in the dictionary, blu, we find your picture next to the word “nut” not because I’m a mean person or I “just don’t want to hear the truth,” but because your delusional rantings so perfectly define the word. So, if you want to go on and on complaining because George W. Bush isn’t ever going to be tried as a war criminal and no one in their right mind is going to agree with the 9/11 truthers, be my guest. But every single commment you make here just adds evidence of your nuttiness.
To be blunt, I’ve told you before: I will never go look at any video or read any link that you put here. Why? Because your rantings have shown you to be either a liar or a nut and my time is too valuable to waste that way. I don’t mind putting you and Pho, another nut, but really, more of just an ass, the kind nobody befriends because their asshattery causes exasperation from both Left and Right, in the same category. Pho thinks he’s clever, leaving a sentence here or there, but he’s really just a bore, sitting comfortably in his existence thanks to the U.S., or, at the very least, because nobody gives a crap about New Zealand and who would want to take them out anyway? They are simply insignificant bit players on the world stage, so it’s fine that Pho has the privilege of shooting off his mouth because Americans permit it. As for you, blu, I wish you would go live with Pho. Maybe you guys could rent a flat together, or sit in cardboard boxes side by side on the street. I’m sure some well-meaning people would throw you a few coins and listen and nod when you blather on about the eeeeevil George W. Bush and how the U.S.government took out the World Trade Center and how you have links! and videos! that support these conclusions. And then they’ll politely ask you if you take your medication regularly.
But I won’t do that. I’ll just point out that for a guy who was so eeeevil and wicked, a guy that was such a dictator and who is responsible for so many murders, George W. Bush sure didn’t mind helping Barack Obama through the transition, nor did he interfere with either the election or the inauguration of the guy following him. That’s really not the typical behavior of an eeeeevil dictator. And eeeevil dictators don’t typically go live in Preston Hollow, either. But I’m sure you’ll find a YouTube video somewhere that shows how George W. Bush is still running the U.S. through his puppet, Barack Obama, and that, as part of the Trilateral Commission and the Federal Reserve, he’s making billions and billions just to give away to his friends in the oil industry. Or something.
*insert eeeevil laughter here*
And, yes, blu, I’m mocking you mercilessly. Because that’s about the only sane approach to someone so utterly and completely crazy as you are.
Well, Sharon, you must be wiser than the FBI official that recently acknowledged in a letter to the fellow, Gage is his name, the architect that started Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth, the FBI agent stating that yes, it is quite apparent that explosives were used, as the hundreds of professionals (that have the guts and objectivity to observe and speak honestly, unlike you) in the multiple categories listed above in my post-8 February 2009 12:04am, and frankly I will give all those many hundreds of professionals more credit than you. You are of mediocrity when actual honest objective attention is required. You bypass actual facts in favor of your pride. Congratulations. You are not uncommon. You are not outrageous, not objective, and thoroughly common. I doubt you’ve ever spoken, or even had an original thought. Incidentally, it isn’t even so surprising anymore to have people realize the truth about 911. I speak to many Conservatives that have had the guts (unlike you) to look at the video documentation, and facts presented by the many (approaching 700 structural engineers and architects now) and realize it isn’t absurd. By the way numerous Conservatives make statements on that site I left the link for. Fact is, believing the government story is absurd.
While marvelling at the strength of character these many professionals, even quite a few military intelligence officials, some terrorism experts among them making statements, enduring attitudes like yours, and take note of the contrast between those like you and them, an Einstein quote comes to mind:
“Great spirits will always encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds.”
Albert Einstein
Yes, blu, as a matter of fact, I *am* smarter than the crackpots you cite because there are always useful idiots willing to sell their souls to the true believers of UFOs, conspiracies and the like. Remember, there are useful idiots still insisting that the Rosenbergs weren’t giving the Soviets our secrets, even after irrefutable proof. So, the fact that some derelict types are willing to stand up and say, “Oh, absolutely. The U.S. government wanted sooooo badly to start a war that they blew up their own people (and not the obvious airplanes that flew into buildings)” neither impresses me nor causes me to believe. There are always charlatans. You aren’t the first to be hoodwinked by them.
Facts and professionals be damned. I guess we know who the delusional one is. It does not matter if you are willing or not to take your blinders off. More and more people have. The masses are coming around now, acknowledging the obvious. You’ll be the last to realize it. That’s okay. Your perspective and awareness are not needed nor is it valuable.
There are always “professionals” willing to sell their souls to the idiots, blu. That’s how shows like Unsolved Mysteries stay on the air.
Look, blu. There are lots of believers in Scientology, too, but just because lots of people believe in lunacy doesn’t make it true. And if my perspective and awareness aren’t required, then why don’t you just spend your time with your tinfoil hat buddies on the 9/11 truther sites?
You cover your eyes, Sharon, and you bring up things that are off subject, that indeed, might be examples of that which is bogus, but you refuse to acknowedge facts and evidence of which there is a plentitude. So, we should agree to disagree. You can have your daisy fresh perspective of Bush and the “oh so glorious” war on terror. Taking this conversation further will only go in circles. Thank you for an interesting conversation, none the less.
No, blu, I don’t cover my eyes. I believe in truth and facts, evidence and probability. I don’t believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, that the government took out our own buildings and killed Americans, that George W. Bush led our country to topple Saddam Hussein for oil, or that he committed war crimes. I don’t think President Bush was responsible for hurricanes, tsunamis, or other weather patterns.
I think people who believe such things are crazy and desperate for reasons I can’t even fathom. Why try to desperately to believe this crap when facts and logic point in a different and more mundane direction? I suppose it must be that your life is too boring if you don’t believe the black helicopters are going to come after you any day now. After all, if you *really* had the truth, a truth the all-powerful government wanted to suppress, why are you being allowed to say the things you do and have for years? If George W. Bush were the eeeevil dictator you’ve always tried to say he was, why are you still free to protest, call him names and accuse him of crimes, hmm? Why is that? If Bush were a dictator, why would he have willingly handed over power to a man of the opposition party?
I know it’s tough when faced with truth and logic, blu. It’s just not as exciting as listening to conspiracy theories and accusing your president of war crimes. But it’s really sad that that’s the sort of thing you’re peddling.
Okay, Sharon, look outside, and if it is night it will be light outside and and if it is dark it’s the daytime. President Bush and Cheney are honest men that wouldn’t lie to start a war. All those half dozen or more other sources are just lying. Even though the CIA told Bush, there were no WMDs, he was just mistaken to think that those many intelligence people were lying. Poor Bush. Even if he and Cheney are making billions of dollars for their freinds and family, he was just mistaken. The guy that wrote a book quoting GW Bush before he took office (and I do mean TOOK)as saying he was going to be a wartime president, and he wasn’t going to waste political capital. The author, Mickey Herchkowitz (I have no idea how to spell that) was lying. Blair’s secretary, the guy taking notes at Downing Street when Bush and Blair met together to discuss the lead up to the Iraq war, had on record specifically Bush saying “we’ll have to fix the facts to get the people to go along with this war”. He had to be lying too. Bush is such a nice guy, he wouldn’t lie to us. That Joe Wilson guy that went to Niger specifically to find out if Sadaam had sought to buy yellow cake, his findings of Bush lying, must be lies too, huh, Sharon?
All those 25, individuals on the site I offered review of, the military intelligence folks, the many scientists, the hundreds of firefighters, the structural engineers, the architects, the pilots, and aviation professionals, the NORAD people, the survivors of 9-11, the many journalists that were there at that moment at Ground Zero, and others. Everyboy else is lying. Okay Sharon.
Yes, blu. They’re lying. Or they’re mistaken. Or they’re willing to say what sells books.
Virtually every first world country believed Saddam Hussein had WMDs, blu. That includes Bill Clinton, who called for regime change in 1998. It includes heads of state from around the world. That others were not willing to change the regime did not mean Saddam Hussein was not a dangerous man to his own people, to people in the region and to the U.S. This is a man who tried to have the POTUS assassinated, who paid the families of suicide bombers, who cheered 9/11, and who allowed Al Qaeda to move back and forth through his country freely. Now, I know that to a leftwinger, it’s wayyy more likely that our duly elected president (yes, duly elected) would be willing to rip the world apart and send our men to die just to make some money on oil, but logically, that doesn’t work.
But please, blu, you keep citing “credible” sources and arguing that because someone had been an engineer, they couldn’t become a nutbag like you.
BTW, do you believe in UFOs, as well?
I do not follow the UFO gang. I do not follow the Bigfoot stories. I only follow that which shows ample verification from enough solid professionals, ample verification from credible evidence. So, let’s just leave it at that. You can believe your much more comfortable benevolent perspective, and I’ll believe what the evidence, and credible sources offer.
Face it, Sharon, if you were 100% solidly sure I was wrong, you would not be so trembling, against looking at the evidence, the half dozen video documentation, the hundreds of tesimonies, and hundreds of structural engineers, NORAD professionals, Pentagon professionals, government intelligence, and a list so huge and impressive I don’t want to have to type it in its entirity. (I think I spelled that word wrong). So, Sharon, if you looked at the testimonies, and saw a few of the documentaries, and you are so sure about it, then you could honestly assess the “fraud” you are so sure of. You won’t, and I’m tired of talking to someone who won’t leave thier little box of safety, insulating themself from something that blows their little box to pieces. Stay there. I’m done here.
Here’s an example of one of the “crackpots”.
Fred Burks – Former State Department Interpreter for Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, Vice Presidents Dick Cheney and Al Gore, Secretaries of State Colin Powell and Madeleine Albright. 18-year State Department career.
Essay: “How is it possible that our military’s highly touted missile detections systems could not locate Flight 77 in the 42 minutes it was known to be lost before it crashed into the heart of the defense system of the U.S.? …
An even bigger question is why isn’t our media asking these questions? Why isn’t our military spending many millions of dollars to find out why military defense systems failed on 9/11? Why is it that the 9/11 commission budget was far less than the budget allotted to the Challenger Disaster or even the Monika Lewinsky affair?” http://www.wanttoknow.info/911star
Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
“We want truthful answers to question. … As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things:
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry.” http://www.911truth.org/article
Here is another one for you.
Terrell (Terry) E. Arnold, MA – Former Deputy Director, Office of Counter-Terrorism and Emergency Planning, U.S. State Department. Former Chairman, Department of International Studies, National War College. Graduate of the National War College. Retired Senior Foreign Service Officer of the U.S. Department of State. He has served as a security and crisis management consultant for several Fortune 500 companies. He also served as a crisis management consultant for several Federal agencies, including The State Department, the Department of Defense, the U.S. Customs Service and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. U.S. Navy veteran of World War II and Korean conflict. Author, co-author, and editor of Fighting Back: Winning the War Against Terrorism (1986), Beyond the Iran-Contra Crisis : The Shape of U. S. Anti-Terrorism Policy in the Post-Reagan Era (1988), The Violence Formula: Why People Lend Sympathy and Support to Terrorism (1990), Think About Terrorism: The New Warfare (1991), A World Less Safe: Essays on Conflict in the 21st Century (2005).
Essay It is Vital to Move Beyond 911 7/3/07:
“More than five years after the fact, Washington leadership keeps the American people fixated on the events of 9/11. They have brought us no closer than we were on September 12, 2001 to resolving how it was executed and by what enemy. They tell us repeatedly that it was the work of al Qaida, but they have yet to show us the proofs. They told us the official version of what happened that day, but their story is laced with contradictions, and the facts visible on the ground at the time belie much of the official account. Our leadership gave us a Sopranos blank screen ending to a terrible tragedy, while working below the radar to avoid our established laws and slowly to destroy our democratic institutions. Every American must look carefully at the pattern of decay that began with 9/11. …
As an alleged post 9/11 defense, the War on Terrorism is a gigantic fraud. …
We cannot let a single criminal act, the facts and perpetrators of which are still obscure, destroy our society. With all respect due to those who lost family and friends in the attacks of 9/11, there is no evident search for justice, truth or our future safety in the US government actions outlined in this paper. Instead we are watching the most brutal power games of our times that benefit the few at the expense of the rest of us.” http://www.rense.com
Bio: Library of Congress
Frank A. DeMartini – WTC victim. Architect and WTC Construction Manager, North Tower, 88th floor. Demartini first worked at the World Trade Center when Leslie E. Robertson Associates hired him to assess damage from the terrorist truck bombing in 1993.
Video interview 1/25/01: “The [Twin Tower] building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door. This intense grid and the jet-plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.” http://video.google.com
Editor’s note: The Boeing 767-200s that impacted the Twin Towers on 9/11 were only slightly larger than 707s and DC 8s, the types of jetliners whose impacts the World Trade Center’s designers anticipated. The maximum takeoff weight of the 707 is 15% less than the 767.
Bio: http://www.legacy.com
Scott C. Grainger, BS CE, PE
Frank A. DeMartini – WTC victim. Architect and WTC Construction Manager, North Tower, 88th floor. Demartini first worked at the World Trade Center when Leslie E. Robertson Associates hired him to assess damage from the terrorist truck bombing in 1993.
Video interview 1/25/01: “The [Twin Tower] building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door. This intense grid and the jet-plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.” http://video.google.com
Editor’s note: The Boeing 767-200s that impacted the Twin Towers on 9/11 were only slightly larger than 707s and DC 8s, the types of jetliners whose impacts the World Trade Center’s designers anticipated. The maximum takeoff weight of the 707 is 15% less than the 767.
Bio: http://www.legacy.com
Scott C. Grainger, BS CE, PE
This is only the tip of the iceberg, Sharon. There are hundreds more of relevant professionals, that sure don’t need to impress anyone. However, there are too many deaf, dumb and blind, that think they know more, like you, supposedly knowing more than these government officials. The problem exists with people like you, who won’t look.
Incidentally, those links were copied and pasted along with the text, so they would not be functional here. If you go to patriotsquestion911.com you could link directly to the multiple live links that have massive bodies of information, research, multiple documents on scientifice evaluation, etc.
That didn’t work, the link….grr. Let’s try it again.
http://patriotsquestion911.com
I don’t know why it doesn’t work.
I fixed it for you, Blu.
Thank you, dear Dana.
Blu, I’m not “trembling” or “afraid” to go to your links. I don’t go to your links because they are lies or, more charitably, delusional. If you want to believe, as you do want to believe, that the U.S. government would deliberately kill its own people for whatever ridiculous reason you’ve dreamed up, that’s fine with me. Really. But stop with the “you must be afraid because you don’t want to look at it” crap. I don’t look at your junk for the same reason I don’t believe in UFOs, Bigfoot, the grassy knoll theory of Kennedy’s assassination, Area 51, and a host of other idiotic conspiracies. And yes, blu, there are lots and lots of people who believe all those things, too. But they’re wrong and you are as well.
I don’t want to believe it either. Bye.
No, you DO want to believe it. That’s why you keep printing it, linking to it, and arguing for it like some Armageddon-obsessed fundamentalist preacher.
No, I don’t want to abandond my objectivity. I wish these things didn’t happen. I don’t like to have to acknowledge what has taken place, but I can’t. I don’t like to have to constantly encounter peoples’denial, and derision. I have been called an assortment of things. I don’t much like that. But, I won’t pretend like I can’t see the obvious, because it is otherwise unfathomable. When you start looking at history though, it is something that occurs more often than you realize. In different countries. Google up “Operation Northwoods”. It is an unclassified (now) document. If you are unwilling to look at the documentation made available on video, or listen to the professionals, Sharon, try looking at actual United States documents, made available through the Freedom of Information Act. If you can’t do that, Sharon, I’m convinced you are childishly refusing to even think about anything unpleasant that occurred by way of someone you trusted.
Would you be willing to listen to Republicans? Some from G W B’s administration? Other R administrations?
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/Article%20Republican%20Appointees%20Challenge%20911.pdf
Do military people, usually conservative also, have any credence for you?
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/Article%20Military%20Officers%20Challenge%20911.pdf
Hey, blu, here are some real believers, too. We’ve got scientists, anthropologists, maybe even some engineers, too. And remember:
Sounds real familiar!
Okay, Sharon, you can bring up obscure things that have a handful of “believers”. You are hopelessly deluded, and, I’m sure you’ll say the same of me. There are some people, that despite the evidence, you can give them any amount of it, and are unmoved. You fit into that category.
You didn’t look up the government documednt I suggested, did you? You didn’t read any of the military intelligence of those who specialized in terrorism, did you? You didn’t see any of the videos with dozens of people coming out of the building discussing the bombs, did you? You hadn’t cared to hear the dozens of firefighters’ acknowledgement of irrefuatable bombs going off in all three buildings. You didn’t care that there are over 118 witnesses having witnessed bombs going off. I had the decency to look at what you presented, despite its absurdity, that yes, I realize is absurdity. You are probably the only person, almost in America that hasn’t seen the WTC7 video going down exactly like an implosion, because it was one. But, this is foolish of me to try to discuss factual evidence that is in mass, something like 50 pieces now, to someone who blindly obliges to what she preconcieves as “truth”. You are pathetic, and I know, I know, “you are, blu” will be your assumption and rebuttal. No, I have objectivity, in my scrutining observations, not blind faith. You can come back here and denounce my evidence, the minimum amount I’ve brought here, but, I’m done. You are a hard nut to crack, and I don’t want a petrified nut, to share a discussion with anymore.
Blu, I ‘ve seen videos like the ones you constantly link to before. No, I’m not going to read your propaganda. No, I’m not going to listen to the 118 people who agree with you over the thousands who agree with logic and common sense. Like the Bigfoot believers, you will continue to argue that up is down, left is right through eternity, and there’s no way to convince you otherwise. This is why I don’t bother trying, but, instead, have mocked and insulted you in a way I have never done with any other person on the internet. Because your behavior is so insulting to my intelligence that it deserves my derision. It would have been one thing if, in one place or one comment you put the “information” you believe in out for consumption. But it is your constant unwillingness to just shut up about trutherness and the eeeevilness of George Bush that causes me to talk this way to you. Now, my suggestion would be that you actually stick to the topic of a post and quit putting up your 9/11 truther crap on my threads or I’ll go all Amanda Marcotte on you.
Okay, Sharon, you know more than they do.
And YOU were the one that started on this subject of 911 truth. And mock away. I have no respect for your intellectual process, so I’m unmoved by any insults you send my way. This conversation has devolved even beyond the usual derision. Bye.
And, a Zogby poll over two years ago showed that over half of the US population believed that a cover-up occurred with the 911 Commission. So, laugh away, but you are the odd one out. But, among objective discerning intelligent people, that is secondary. For YOU, however, it is possibly relevant. I’m sure you’ll deny that. You are without the capacity for independent, intellectual observation. You won’t look at most of the stuff. I wonder what you actually looked at. But you’ve offered nothing to refute the evidence, EXCEPT clever derision. NOT evidence of the government being right, at ALL. NOTHING. But, you can’t. So it is all you have. So, this conversation is as futile as any anywhere. Your mind is frozen.
Meanwhile, back in the real world…
Oh, please, blu. After YEARS of truthers arguing that the twin towers were taken out by the U.S. gov’t, it’s predictable that there are enough gullible people to buy it now. Occam’s Razor still holds true, blu: the simplest explanation is the best. In this case, as I’ve stated previously, the number of people needed to be involved in the conspiracy is so large as to be far outside the realm of reason. On top of that, the risk involved in such a venture outweighs any possible benefit from it.
But remember: lots of people believe in UFOs, Bigfoot, etc.
BTW, blu, I don’t disbelieve you because, somehow, *I’m* deficient. It’s that your claims are ridiculous. So quit trying to place the problem with me. Spend more time looking in the mirror.
Blu, I brought the 9/11 truth crap up as an example of the bizarre lengths you are willing to go to in your hatred of all things George Bush. You took the bait.
http://firefightersfor911truth.org/
http://www.ae911truth.org/
http://911research.wtc7.net/
http://physics911.net/
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/
Blu, I refer you to my link I posted above. Pull your head out of your nether region.
You’re also a fool, whose frozen brain can’t operate independently and objectively. Conservatives seem to assume that they are conserving brain cells by putting a prohibition on use of their brains. They don’t think that they are allowed to think or allow their own moral compass in, when obliging to the GOP’s thought laws. Too bad for them and those that interact with them, that it makes them Robotican like, and also repulsive.
However, these links are provided for anyone that should have an objective and inquisitive mind, who respects the professional observations of relevant scholars’ statements, in MASS (and still growing larger yet).
Sharon assumes it’s all about my dislike for GWB. GWB’s path of destruction, and well documented deceits are beside the point. Although he’s certainly involved in the cover-up.
http://www.911docs.net/
I admit to some amazement at how some of our friends on the left thought that George Bush and Dick Cheney couldn’t do anything right, yet were somehow able to plan and execute a conspiracy, one which had to involve dozens of people, if not hundreds, to place the controlled demolition charges in the World Trade Center towers and one of the side structures, without any leaks, and without anyone ever finding these things, and then persuade nineteen innocent Arabs to hijack four planes and run a suicide attack the United States, hitting the WTC towers and the Pentagon, then execute a flawless cover-up of the whole thing and have absolutely nobody talk.
Clearly, President Bush and Vice President Cheney must have been the evil geniuses of our time!
Dana, if you want to see the documentaries, the answers are there. Also, PLEASE look up the document, which is a declassified document, called: Operation Northwoods. Also, please look up: false flag operation You’ll realize that through out history, starting wars this way, with false flag operations is nothing new, and has been used throughout history by different countries.
Have you looked at the list lately as to how many, and who have signed on to the doubters of the government’s 911 Commission? (the link you fixed for me)http://patriotsquestion911.com
Did you notice that the number of structural engineers and architects are now approaching 700?
I never personally thought Bush was that particularly dumb, although his communciation and social skills were dreadful. I was embarassed for him and our country. And it was a complex undertaking. Cheney, he IS an evil genius. Really, Dana, I give you more credit for being somewhat open minded, at least curious. Watch: 911 Mysteries which is at the bottom of that site. It is a Conservative who nararates it. I guess I shouldn’t stereotype Conservatives as generally being so entirely thick headed. Some (a-hem) are. And, Dana, as you watch the film, if you would, take note of things that seem unlikely, if you are so inclined (I know you are) and then later refer to those notes. You’ll see that those questions you had, are easily ansewered.
By the way, a recent development in the 911 truth movement has been an FBI official that has agreed with Richard Gage (who heads up Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth) that all signs point to it being controlled demolitions.
Another thing you probably didn’t know, is that quite some time ago, a NIST fellow fessed up that NIST does “conclusions” for politicians that are the desired outcome…for the politician that is.
Another interesting point is that John Dean (Watergate) mentioned that when Nixon and the gang were trying to find out what the story was with the criminal behavior then, the way considered to get out of their predicament was to form a commission, which of course, can be appointed by those in charge, who are being investigated.
Did you know that even some on the 911 Commission said specifically it was intended to fail ? Kean said that.
There is so so much more. When looking at the evidence against the government story, it is obvious that AGAINST has the greatest and most complete mass of evidence on their side. More is continuously coming out too. It’s astonishing really.
And of course PLEASE look at what some of the professionals are saying.
By the way, this movement has gone international. The evidence on this side (against) of the argument makes it more than obvious that the government story is laughable. Only not very funny.
Blu, you are too gullible in your attempt to be an arrogantly ignorant liberal automaton. You really should work a bit harder at getting information from people outside your conspiracy theorist circle.
Sorry, John. I looked at both sides of the argument thoroughly. I’ve seen ample evidence on my perspective, to have come to the conclusions I have. I didn’t come to this understanding without alot of scrutiny. I’m wondering how thoroughly looked at the views you have opposed. Click on to some of the links I’ve left. It isn’t just a few “out there” professionals. We are talking hundreds, that have put thier reputations on the line. Of course others have looked as well. Not everyone is willing to risk their reputation to speak out.
I always say: The worst learning disorders are “already knowing everything”.
Oddly enough, grassy knoll proponents and Bigfoot supporters say the same things…
Did you read what I said? No.
Sharon, did you know that there are some cultures, that when a tragedy occurs, say, a death for example, laughter takes over? My guess is that’s it’s a subconcious mechanism to protect one from a difficult reality. Your constant joking, while ignoring the factual evidence, of which there is plenty, makes me think, somewhere in your background, such a culture existed in your heritage/DNA.
The most foolish thing I’ve done here is to assume logic and evidence would be something you would consider.
Who says the 911 Commission was a farce? How about the 911 Commission! Oh, also dozens of witnesses that testified besides, including many that have made public statements, and have started information networks, blogs, and sites that are nothing but
scientific evaluations, which are in the dozens, regarding physics analysis, etc.
Also, a NIST official has confessed to the organization being a political operative, more than a scientifically objective organization. You know, like those scientists that said smoking was good for you, yeah really, if you had a cold, back in the earlier days apparently, ciggarettes will get you up and running again.
But, here I am again, trying to talk sense, to those that won’t hear it. Of course, there are always alot more people that justcome to blogs like this and read, than those that come and also post. So, I’m assuming that those with curiosity, objectivity, and a discerning mind, may decide to look. A healthy scrutinizing of the government shows a more mature perspective. The defense industry which operates from within the government/Pentagon is even more worthy of scrutiny. Oh, what do you know….those that occupied the government those years, were actually major stock holders in the oil and defense industries. Hmmmm.
Oh, of course, it’s that “those occupying the White House” had stock in certain corporations. Of course, they also had stock in lots of other corporations that, somehow, escaped scrutiny. Of course, of course…
And, no, blu. I’m not laughing at you because of some cultural response. I’m laughing at you because you deserve it. Now, again, I have nothing against you believing in the Tooth Fairy and little men from Mars. But I don’t care how many engineers you get to say the Tooth Fairy is real, I know who stuck the money under my kids’ pillows.
Well, Sharon, I was kind of thinking that the real perps were wearing pink jammies draped around their heads. But not the kind with Tinkerbell, but more likely the kind that have Calvin Klein underwear tied tightly, knotted behind the ear, left leaning knot meaning they were from the Eastern regions of Pakistan. Right knotted elastic on the opposite side means that they are really saviors, the kind that will deliver us from the evil-dooooers. If they have a purple tatoo, with orange, size 10 Font, letters, expounding their religion, then, that means they are here to take away your freedoms. You do know that they hate you for your freedom, don’t you? After all, we have McDonald’s and of course, we don’t pray every day, three times a day at the local mosque, so they must want to take away our freedoms. “We’ll do’em on Sept. eleventh,” said they. But, the big boys on our side of the river, will show’em. You must be right, Sharon. It’s kind of about street gangs. The “bad boys” went after our “good boys”. It’s really a cartoon. They decided our freedoms need to be taken away, so hijacking planes was what they needed to do. But actually Daddy Rumsfield knew better. oooops, but uh, oh, uh, uh, uh, why did we attack Iraq, though? Oh, that’s right, to bring them democracy, uh, uh, uh, well, why did we kill so many of them? We were bringing freedom to them. Oh, that’s right. Kind of a shame, huh? But on a lighter note, they siezed billions by way of the US military. Oil rich land. Who was it getting that…? Oh, that’s right, oil industry people, and defense did realy well too, didn’t they?? Gee, who is it that we know, that is invested in it so hugely? Oh, that’s right, the Carlyle Group, and don’t you recall who owns much of that, and Halliburton? That’s right those in WA DC Whitehouse locale last eight years. Interesting, how they also were the policy makers too.
There’s that book by the brilliant Republican, a highly decorated general, back when Republcan meant repectful, and respectable, the book he wrote was called, and he was so brilliant too, “War is a Racket”. General Smedley Butler. I think he was right.
There was that other brilliant republican that said the same thing in different words, which I will find and come back with on my next posting. Abraham Lincoln will be back in my next posting.
“We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing its end. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood. . . . It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless.” — Pres. Abraham Lincoln (letter to Elkins, 1864 Nov 21).
Another Abraham Lincoln quotation: “I see in a the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country…corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign byworking upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the republic is destroyed.”
Here we have Thomas Paine: That there are men in all countries who get thier living by war, and by keeping up the quarrels of nations, is as shocking as it is true; but when those who are concerned in the government of a country, make it their study to sow discord, and cultivate prejudices between nations, it becomes the more unpardonable.”
For God’s sake, blu, have you no shame whatsoever? I mean, your credibility was shot a long time ago, but now you want to quote the Founding Fathers and Lincoln as support for your insane notions that eeeevil George Bush and Co. killed American civilians for what? Oh, that’s right. We have an elaborate plot so we would have justification to take out Saddam Hussein. And this really must be an elaborate plot because it not only includes George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, but large swaths of Congress who had called for regime change in Iraq for years, world leaders and their governments who had stated that Hussein either had WMDs or would try to obtain them as soon as he could, a host of U.N. representatives who voted for sanctions and the original resolutions restricting Hussein’s oil sales and movements, etc., etc.
Occam’s Razor, blu, ftw. There are simply too many people needed to do what you want to pretend happened. Now, you’ve made your arguments. I’ve let you put up your links, name the people you think are most credible to support your hallucination, and now you’re trying to bring the Founding Fathers up as “proof” that these things happened. It’s time for you to go peddle these wares elsewhere.
Look, I know you hate George Bush and because of that, you’re willing to believe he’s responsible for every eeeevil that’s taken place over the years. But Teh One is in power now. Time for you to start cooking up new conspiracies.
Do you live in Golpher Gulch, Arkansas ? What do you think these venerable fellows are saying, Sharon. So, you think I took ALL of them out of context? Gee, I sure am clever, because they all are saying the same thing.
Here’s Wiliam O. Douglas: “Those in power are blind devotees to private enterprise. They accept that degree of socialism implicit in the vast susidies to the military industrial complex, but not to the type of socialism which maintains public project for the disemployed and the unemployed alike.”
Dwight D. Eisenhower: “Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. The world in arms is not spending money alone. It’s spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of it’s children…..This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross.”
J. Edgar Hoover: “The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous, he cannot believe it exists.”
Plato: “This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears to be a protector.”
James Madison: “If our nation is ever taken over, it will be taken over from within.”
James Madison: “When tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foriegn enemy.”
James Madison: “The means of defense against a foriegn danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home.”
U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, farewell address to Nation, January 17th, 1961: “In the counsels of government, we will guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought by the Military Industrial Complex. The potental for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the wieght of this combination endanger the liberties of=r democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowedgable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals that security and liberty may prosper together.”
Sun Tzu: “All war is based on deception.”
Herman Goering: “I know two types of law because I know two types of men, those who are with us and those who are against us.”
Well, obviously the last quote was not a venerable fellow.
Hey, Sharon, here’s one of those hundreds of “losers” you laugh at:
Terrell (Terry) E. Arnold, MA – Former Deputy Director, Office of Counter-Terrorism and Emergency Planning, U.S. State Department. Former Chairman, Department of International Studies, National War College. Graduate of the National War College. Retired Senior Foreign Service Officer of the U.S. Department of State. He has served as a security and crisis management consultant for several Fortune 500 companies. He also served as a crisis management consultant for several Federal agencies, including The State Department, the Department of Defense, the U.S. Customs Service and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. U.S. Navy veteran of World War II and Korean conflict. Author, co-author, and editor of Fighting Back: Winning the War Against Terrorism (1986), Beyond the Iran-Contra Crisis : The Shape of U. S. Anti-Terrorism Policy in the Post-Reagan Era (1988), The Violence Formula: Why People Lend Sympathy and Support to Terrorism (1990), Think About Terrorism: The New Warfare (1991), A World Less Safe: Essays on Conflict in the 21st Century (2005).
Essay It is Vital to Move Beyond 911 7/3/07:
“More than five years after the fact, Washington leadership keeps the American people fixated on the events of 9/11. They have brought us no closer than we were on September 12, 2001 to resolving how it was executed and by what enemy. They tell us repeatedly that it was the work of al Qaida, but they have yet to show us the proofs. They told us the official version of what happened that day, but their story is laced with contradictions, and the facts visible on the ground at the time belie much of the official account. Our leadership gave us a Sopranos blank screen ending to a terrible tragedy, while working below the radar to avoid our established laws and slowly to destroy our democratic institutions. Every American must look carefully at the pattern of decay that began with 9/11. …
As an alleged post 9/11 defense, the War on Terrorism is a gigantic fraud. …
We cannot let a single criminal act, the facts and perpetrators of which are still obscure, destroy our society. With all respect due to those who lost family and friends in the attacks of 9/11, there is no evident search for justice, truth or our future safety in the US government actions outlined in this paper. Instead we are watching the most brutal power games of our times that benefit the few at the expense of the rest of us.” http://www.rense.com
Bio: Library of Congress
http://911blogger.com/node/19408 This would explain one of your questions regarding “How could they get enough people to carry out such a thing?”