It didn’t take long for the liberal lap-dogs to start attacking Rick Perry!

As expected, as soon as Governor Rick Perry (R-TX) announced that he was running for President, the loyal lap-dogs of President Obama came out to try to “question” Mr Perry’s record. This story is from The New York Times, but was reprinted on msn.com; I’m using the msn.com link because the Times’ original is behind a subscription wall:


Texas job boom — leadership or luck?


By Clifford Krauss

HOUSTON — Texas is home to at least one-third of the jobs created nationwide since the recession ended. The state’s economy is growing about twice as fast as the national rate. Home prices have remained stable even as much of the country has seen sharp declines.

Is Texas lucky, or has the state benefited from exceptional leadership? As Gov. Rick Perry campaigned Monday in Iowa for the Republican presidential nomination — with the economy dominating the national political landscape — the answer to that question is central to his candidacy.

Even before he formally entered the race over the weekend, Mr. Perry and his allies set out to dictate an economic narrative on his terms. A radio spot last week in Iowa told voters that the governor “has a proven record of controlling spending and creating jobs” and suggested that he could replicate the success of Texas on a national scale. In a budget speech a few months ago, Mr. Perry, who declined through a spokesman to be interviewed for this article, boasted that Texas stood “in stark contrast to states that choose to burden their residents with higher taxes and onerous regulatory mandates.”

More at the link; the Times original can be found here.

Governor Perry isn’t perfect; no candidate is. And I don’t agree with Governor Perry on every issue; the only person I agree with on absolutely everything is myself, and even there I sometimes have my doubts. :)

But one thing is certain: he’s clearly superior to President Obama!

Will Rick Perry make a better President than Barack Obama? One thing is obvious: we never know how well someone is going to do as President until he actually gets in the office. Millions and millions of people thought that Mr Obama was the right man for the job in 2008, even though he’d never run anything in his life. A lot of people think that Rick Perry is the right man for the job, now, and we have his record as Governor at which to look, but while state gubernatorial seats are the primary training ground we have for Presidents, it’s still a huge step from the statehouse to the White House, and some governors have done very well, while others have been failures.

But Mr Parry almost couldn’t do worse than Mr Obama. If Mr Perry were elected our 45th President and he was an abject, miserable, sniveling failure, he’d be, at worst, tied with Mr Obama as our Worst President Ever.™ All he has to do is get a couple of things right, and he’ll be better than our 44th President.

As for me, I think that he’d do a lot better. He has the right basic ideas, and he has the right personal philosophy, but I could say the same things about most of the other Republican candidates. What separates him from the rest of the Republican candidates is that he has an eleven-year record of success as Governor of the Lone Star State.¹ I have more confidence in Mr Perry to be able to handle the job than I do in the others.

_____________________________
¹ – Mitt Romney was a successful Governor as well, but I have philosophical differences with him. Or at least I think I do: since he’s taken both sides of every contested argument in the past, depending upon the office for which he was running, no one can be sure of what he believes at any given time, or how subject to change it is. Jon Huntsman was a successful Governor as well, but he’s too unknown, and doesn’t really have a chance.

90 Comments

  1. Well really, was it luck or leadership for Governor Rick Perry in TX? I say it has been mostly luck, as I pointed out in detail right here on this very blog, concluding as follows:

    “So this is the “miracle” upon which Rick Perry will run, a miracle he hardly produced because he inherited a low-tax, low wage, low-services petro-state with warm weather and a solid mortgage regulatory apparatus. Anyone of a large number of people could have done Rick Perry’s governorship equally as successfully; there is absolutely nothing unique about this man. If you disagree, make your case!”

    And there is more, for example:

    1) “PERRY ALLOWED THE EXECUTION OF A LIKELY INNOCENT MAN, THEN IMPEDED AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE MATTER:“Governor Perry permitted an innocent man to be murdered when there was significant evidence that the man might be innocent. Furthermore, five years later, when a commission was formed to look into the case, Perry fired all three commissioners, delaying the inquiry. Is this the Perry way?

    2) “PERRY WANTS TO REPEAL THE 16th AND 17th AMENDMENTS, ENDING DIRECT ELECTION OF U.S. SENATORS AND THE FEDERAL INCOME TAX: In his 2010 book Fed Up!, Perry called the 16th and 17th Amendments “mistaken” and said they resulted from “a fit of populist rage.” The 16th Amendment allows the federal government to collect income taxes, which is the single biggest source of revenue, accounting for 45 percent of all receipts. The 17th Amendment took electing U.S. senators out of the hands of political insiders and allowed the American public to decide their representation instead. If Perry had his way, the federal government would be stripped of its current ability to fund highway construction projects, food inspectors, and the military, and the American public would not even be permitted to elect their own senators.” Pretty radical, yes?

    3) “PERRY PROPOSED LETTING STATES DROP OUT OF SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICAID:” The result of this would be to let the hospitals foot more of the medical bills, and to see more senior citizens in poverty, possibly out on the streets, or at least, more dependent on their already struggling families. Makes lots of sense, doesn’t it?

    4) “TEXAS IS THE COUNTRY’S BIGGEST POLLUTER, BUT PERRY SUED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR DISAPPROVING OF THE STATE’S AIR QUALITY STANDARDS: “ Moreover, Perry considers the BP oil spill in the Gulf an “act of God”. Unbelievable, but that’s Governor Perry for ya!

    5) “PERRY DESIGNATED AS “EMERGENCY LEGISLATION” A BILL REQUIRING ALL WOMEN SEEKING ABORTIONS TO HAVE SONOGRAMS FIRST:” He designated this bill as emergency legislation. Talk about “big government”, Perry is the champ!

    6) “PERRY GUTTED CHILDCARE SERVICES EVEN AS TEXAS CHILDHOOD POVERTY HIT 25 PERCENT:” Mean spirited a**hole this Perry is (in contrast to yours truly :) ), isn’t he?

    Want more? Well this is enough for now, but you can be sure, us “lap dogs” will have a long list, because that is how mean-spirited a person/governor he has been.
    [h/t to Scott Keyes of Think Progress]

  2. Perry deliberately lies:

    “(Gov) PERRY ALLOWED THE EXECUTION OF A LIKELY INNOCENT MAN.”

    Now, you already knew, from this comment as well as this one, that the Governor of Texas cannot stop an execution unless such is recommended by the Texas Board of Pardons and Parole. He couldn’t have “allowed” the execution, because he lacked the authority to stop it.

  3. Of course, that’s a lie I expect to see repeated, ad infinitum, by our friends on the left, right up through election day. It’s a lie, and they know that it’s a lie, but they’ll use it and use it and use it again.

  4. But one thing is certain: he’s clearly superior to President Obama!

    This must be a use of the word “clearly” not in the dictionary.

    It’s not “the loyal lap-dogs of President Obama came out to try to “question” Mr Perry’s record” – Krugman also diminished the claim. Krugman, for your information, is head and shoulders the most consistently accurate national pundit – especially when it comes to economics – and that’s a fact.

    But you’re a teabagger, and facts are your enemy…

  5. Breaking News: Governor Perry labels the policies of Ben Bernanke as “almost treasonous”, referring especially if we get a QE3.

    It is one thing to disagree with someone’s policy, but quite another to choose extremist language like this. How can anyone seriously consider this person as presidential timber?

    My impression is that this man is not only extreme in his politics, but also out of control with his language. This is a mean-spirited individual. Haven’t we had enough of this already from the Rightie haters?

  6. And, from Puck, a frequent commenter on the Delaware Liberal, we see another form of attack:

    Perry wastes no time going after Jewish bankers:

    Gov. Rick Perry of Texas extended his sharp criticism of President Obama’s economic policies to the Federal Reserve, declaring: “Printing more money to play politics at this particular time in American history is almost treacherous — or treasonous in my opinion.”

    and, speaking of Bernanke:

    “I know there’s a lot of talk and what have you about if this guy prints more money between now and the election,” Mr. Perry told an audience Monday evening. “I don’t know what y’all would do to him in Iowa, but we would treat him pretty ugly down in Texas.”

    I don’t know which of my reactions I find more troubling:

    1. The banking powers at the highest level will now strike down the Perry candidacy (yes they can do that), or

    2. Voters will eat this stuff up with a spoon.

    I followed Puck’s internal link — to the Lost Kos, not exactly a right-wing site — and while I found references to Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board Ben Bernanke, who is Jewish, nowhere did I find a single mention of the fact that Mr Bernanke is Jewish, or any reference to Jews.

    Governor Perry was referring to the Fed’s actions in political terms. Mr Bernanke holds a government position; is criticizing his actions as a government official somehow attacking him because he is Jewish? Can we not criticize a Jewish person’s political or professional actions, which have nothing to do with his religion or ethnicity, without being accused of anti-Semitism?

    Well, maybe not. After all, some people think that criticizing President Obama’s job performance must be motivated by racism.

  7. “Perry deliberately lies:”

    I don’t think so, Dana. You mean to tell me that Governor Perry could not have asked the Texas Board of Pardons for a delay in the execution, knowing that there was a good possibility that an innocent man was about to be executed. Did he do that? Not that I have been able to discover. I think you need to stretch your mind a bit, instead of relying on your one statement of fact, which I have not disputed.

    Governor Perry should have done everything within his power to delay this execution!!! The fact that he apparently did not, speaks volumes about this man Rick Perry!

    And by the way, this is one of many reasons why I oppose the death penalty. I take it that many in power in Texas don’t care. They are barbarians down there!!!

  8. “Of course, that’s a lie I expect to see repeated, ad infinitum, by our friends on the left, right up through election day. It’s a lie, and they know that it’s a lie, but they’ll use it and use it and use it again.”

    Could be. I hope not. I’d say this is your projection, because you should know that your side lies consistently, on a daily basis.

    I would not excuse my side were they to start doing the same thing!

  9. DP:
    I followed Puck’s internal link — to the Lost Kos, not exactly a right-wing site — and while I found references to Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board Ben Bernanke, who is Jewish, nowhere did I find a single mention of the fact that Mr Bernanke is Jewish, or any reference to Jews.

    Well, the only way BO thinks he can win is to go NEGATIVE. I see in this thread his minions got the word.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-plans-scorched-earth-re-election-campaign-2011-8

    Obama Plans Scorched Earth Re-Election Campaign
    John Ellis | Aug. 9, 2011, 4:11 PM | 2,844 | 30

    Today, Politico reports that the Obama re-election campaign has reviewed all of the available data, war-gamed various campaign stratagems and decided that the only way the president can win re-election is by destroying his Republican opponent.

    “Obama Plan: Destroy Romney” is the headline. The story was leaked to Politico by the president’s re-election campaign advisors. On purpose.

    More at the link above:

  10. “Governor Perry was referring to the Fed’s actions in political terms. Mr Bernanke holds a government position; is criticizing his actions as a government official somehow attacking him because he is Jewish? “

    No, Dana. And why do you even bring up “Jewish”, since it is not referred to in the Puck quote you posted? Nevertheless, I strongly object to Governor Perry referring to a policy of Bernanke as possibly treasonous, because this is a direct attack on Bernanke’s patriotism, which is a mighty low blow.

    It is becoming apparent, in just two days time, that Governor Perry’s tongue is like a loose cannon. Moreover, there are indications that he is another one of these Rightie absolutists, since he has publicly testified that his service represents his answering the “call of God”. If he believes this, fine, but if he expects more respect because he is following the will of God, there is no place for this in the political arena. Please, let him run on his record, on his vision, and on his qualifications to be President, not on his religious faith!

  11. It is becoming apparent, in just two days time, that Governor Perry’s tongue is like a loose cannon. Moreover, there are indications that he is another one of these Rightie absolutists, since he has publicly testified that his service represents his answering the “call of God”.

    Rick Perry, apparently, is a Dominionist.

  12. “More at the link above:”

    Well that “link above” is hardly anything else but highly partisan, Yorkshire, therefore how can we even trust their, or Politico’s claim of a leak? They do this leak BS all the time. Is the leak true? Maybe, or maybe not, who knows? The thing to do is to focus on what Obama says, not on the leaks!

    I’ve been watching Obama’s bus tour speeches (Have you?), and I would hardly classify them as going negative, unless criticizing the opposition on issues can be classified as going negative. His speeches are filled with what he wants to do to create jobs, a concern that your side of the aisle does not seem to share! What is the Repub vision for creating jobs, Yorkshire? Austerity? Please explain to me how austerity will create jobs. First we must stimulate jobs on infrastructure, like FDR did, by borrowing at extremely low interest rates, then phase in austerity once we have significant growth.

  13. Perry:
    I’ve been watching Obama’s bus tour speeches (Have you?), and I would hardly classify them as going negative, unless criticizing the opposition on issues can be classified as going negative.

    You mean the Misery Tour, or it’s the Republican’s fault tour, or the wait until September tour? Yeah, I’ve watch part of the $2.2 million taxpayer paid bus, and it’s not my fault tour. There seems to be a theme running with BO, it’s everybody else’s fault but mine tour. Funny how they showed up right after the straw poll tour. It’s really 52% of Americans fault tour for voting for this phoney.

    The other noticable thing is the press is doing a Palin dig on all the Reps, but have yet to look into BO Past yet. And the press is loooaaatttthhhheeee to say anything negative about the Kenyan.

  14. Breaking News: Governor Perry labels the policies of Ben Bernanke as “almost treasonous”, referring especially if we get a QE3.

    It is one thing to disagree with someone’s policy, but quite another to choose extremist language like this. How can anyone seriously consider this person as presidential timber?

    My impression is that this man is not only extreme in his politics, but also out of control with his language. This is a mean-spirited individual. Haven’t we had enough of this already from the Rightie haters?

    ROTFLMAO. This from the absolute moron who labels anything HE dislikes as “terrorist” or worst. This, from the dolt who supports the party that demands civility in politics, then NEVER does it themselves, most recently our own vice president calling Tea Partiers “terrorists.”

    You really ARE brain dead, aren’t you, Fossil? Either you were giggling like a little girl when you wrote “It is one thing to disagree with someone’s policy, but quite another to choose extremist language like this,” knowing that we’d all point out your laughable insanity, or (much more likely) you are getting either Alzheimers or some other brain malady. For we ALL know you do NOT feel such a sentiment when it comes to the Tea Party or anyone ELSE with whom you vehemently disagree. In those cases, it is perfectly OK to use such language. Which, 1) makes you and your party extreme, out of control and mean-spirited, and 2) proves you’re a laughable gap-bridger.

  15. Perry wrote:

    “Governor Perry was referring to the Fed’s actions in political terms. Mr Bernanke holds a government position; is criticizing his actions as a government official somehow attacking him because he is Jewish? “

    No, Dana. And why do you even bring up “Jewish”, since it is not referred to in the Puck quote you posted? Nevertheless, I strongly object to Governor Perry referring to a policy of Bernanke as possibly treasonous, because this is a direct attack on Bernanke’s patriotism, which is a mighty low blow.

    Perry, you obviously didn’t go to Puck’s original. When I blockquoted the line, “Perry wastes no time going after Jewish bankers,” it was Puck who used the term “Jewish bankers.” Here’s the link, again, to Puck’s original. It was there when I quoted it, and it’s still there now.

    I might not have expressed myself the way Governor Perry did concerning the Fed’s monetizing actions, but that doesn’t mean I disagree with the criticism.

  16. Perry says:
    16 August 2011 at 17:36
    “More at the link above:”

    Well that “link above” is hardly anything else but highly partisan, Yorkshire, therefore how can we even trust their, or Politico’s claim of a leak? They do this leak BS all the time. Is the leak true? Maybe, or maybe not, who knows? The thing to do is to focus on what Obama says, not on the leaks!

    Well Perry, since you can BS about BO and what is not BS against BO, you might be able to clarify some information that are facts about BO. We know he went to Occidental College. Why was his major, and what were his grades. Then we know he all of a sudden wound up in Columbia University. Same questions as Occidental. Then we know he then went to Harvard. Same questions as Ocidental. We know he went to Pakistan at a time when travel to Pakistan for Americans was blocked by the Department of State. So he couldn’t use a USA Passport because Pakistan would turn him away, so Perry, what passport did he use? I know you’ll say these questions have been asked of BO, but no answers to date. It seems Rick Perry announced for President over the weekend, and his life story and college records announced. Hmm, we know everything about the Republican candidates, and BO is still on his magical mystery tour.

  17. And Puck is now claiming that it was a “dog whistle.”

    It’s a dog whistle, Dana. You can disagree if you want. For some context, check out the literature of the fringe anti-Fed crowd.

    I responded:

    If you think that Governor Perry was using a dog whistle, then I think you have an obligation to document it. And the Governor is responsible only for his own words, not whatever you have fantasized that “the literature of the fringe anti-Fed crowd” says.

    Many on this fine site have criticized Senator Joseph Lieberman for some of his political stands, and have opposed Israeli policy concerning the Palestinians. Using your logic, why couldn’t I say those were just dog whistles telling us that they hate Jews?

    You ought to understand that one, Perry.

  18. Perry complains:

    Please, let him run on his record, on his vision, and on his qualifications to be President, not on his religious faith!

    His religious faith is part of who he is, as much as where he went to college and who he married. If he believes that his faith either motivated him to run or was part of that equation, it’s honest for him to tell us that; the voters will decide if they like that or not.

  19. A religion that gives nothing, costs nothing, and suffers nothing, is worth nothing. –Martin Luther

    Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion—several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn’t straight. –Mark Twain

    If you have two religions in your land, the two will cut each other’s throats; but if you have thirty religions, they dwell in peace. –Voltaire

    When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, “Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don’t believe?” –Quentin Crisp

    Christians are like frogs holding a symposium round a swamp, debating which of them is most sinful.– Celsus on Christians in the second century A.D.

    I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said ‘Stop! don’t do it!’ ‘Why shouldn’t I?’ he said. I said, ‘Well, there’s so much to live for!’ He said, ‘Like what?’ I said, ‘Well…are you religious or atheist?’ He said, ‘Religious.’ I said, ‘Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?’ He said, ‘Christian.’ I said, ‘Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?’ He said, ‘Protestant.’ I said, ‘Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?’ He said, ‘Baptist!’ I said, ‘Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist church of god or Baptist church of the lord?’ He said, ‘Baptist church of god!’ I said, ‘Me too! Are you original Baptist church of god, or are you reformed Baptist church of god?’ He said, ‘Reformed Baptist church of god!’ I said, ‘Me too! Are you reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?’ He said, ‘Reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!’ I said, ‘Die, heretic scum,’ and pushed him off. –Emo Phillips

    Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it with religious conviction. — Blaise Pascal

    Of all bad men religious bad men are the worst. –C.S. Lewis

    As editor of the largest newspaper in West Virginia, I scan hundreds of reports daily and I am amazed by the frequency with which religion causes people to kill each other. It is a nearly universal pattern, undercutting the common assumption that religion makes people kind and tolerant. – James Haught

    When religion is in the hands of the mere natural man, he is always the worse for it; it adds a bad heat to his own dark fire and helps to inflame his four elements of selfishness, envy, pride, and wrath. And hence it is that worse passions, or a worse degree of them are to be found in persons of great religious zeal than in others that made no pretenses to it. –William Law

    The Institutional Church (ecclesia) has killed only two kinds of people: Those who do not believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, and those who do. — Will Durant

    I am perplexed at the stupidity of the ordinary religious being. In the most practical of all matters he will talk and speculate and try to feel, but he will not set himself to do. –George MacDonald

    If the gods listened to the prayers of men, all humankind would quickly perish since they constantly pray for many evils to befall one another. – Epicurus

    Orthodoxy, or right opinion, is, at best, a very slender part of religion. Though right tempers cannot subsist without right opinions, yet right opinions may subsist without right tempers. There may be a right opinion of God without either love or one right temper toward Him. Satan is a proof of this. –John Wesley

    The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooist brutality, is patently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with the dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will soon find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes. –John Adams

    We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another. –Jonathan Swift

    Organized Christianity has probably done more to retard the ideals that were its founder’s than any other agency in the world. – Richard Le Gallienne

    The human race in the course of time has taken the liberty of softening and softening Christianity until at last we have contrived to make it exactly the opposite of what it is in the New Testament… –Soren Kierkegaard

    I think we must fully face the fact that when Christianity does not make a man very much better, it makes him very much worse… Conversion may make of one who was, if no better, no worse than an animal, something like a devil. — C. S. Lewis in a letter to Bede Griffiths, dated Dec. 20, 1961

    You can safely assume that you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. –Anne Lamott

    True sweeping, incisive spiritual logic pours only confusion and dismay upon head and heart of all who set themselves up for pillars of the church without practising the first principles of the doctrine of Christ–men who, professing to gather their fellows together in the name of Christ, conduct the affairs of the church on the principles of hell–men so blind and dull and slow of heart, that they will never know what outer darkness means until it closes around them–men who seek gain first, safety next, and the will of God not at all–men whose presentation or Christianity is enough to drive the world to a preferable infidelity. –George MacDonald

    Many Christians still at bottom look upon God as one of the most selfish, self-absorbed Beings in the universe, far more selfish than they could think it right to be themselves, —intent only upon His own honor and glory, looking out continually that His own rights are never trampled on; and so absorbed in thoughts of Himself and of His own righteousness, as to have no love or pity to spare for the poor sinners who have offended Him. –Hannah Whitall Smith

    Men rarely (if ever) invent gods superior to themselves. Most gods have the morals and manners of a spoiled child. — Robert Heinlein

    The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself. –Richard Burton

    Evangelical Christianity, as everyone knows, is founded upon hate, as the Christianity of Christ was founded upon love.– H. L. Mencken

    The mentality of fundamentalism is by no means an exclusive property of orthodoxy. Its attitudes are found in every branch of Christendom: the quest for negative status, the elevation of minor issues to a place of major importance, the use of social mores as a norm of virtue, the toleration of one’s own prejudice but not the prejudice of others, the confusion of the church with a denomination, and the avoidance of prophetic scrutiny by using the Word of God as an instrument of self-security but not self-criticism. The mentality of fundamentalism comes into being whenever a believer is unwilling to trace the effects of original sin in his own life. And where is the believer who is wholly delivered from this habit? –E.J. Carnell

    Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. –Unknown

    Religious creeds encourage some of the craziest kinds of thoughts, emotions, and behaviors and favor severe manifestations of neurosis, borderline personality states, and sometimes even psychosis. – Albert Ellis

    Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy. –H. L. Mencken

    In religion and politics people’s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing. – Mark Twain

    The majority of mankind think that they think; they acquiesce, and suppose that they argue; they flatter themselves that they are holding their own, when they have actually grown up to manhood, with scarcely a conviction that they can call their own. So it was, and so it ever shall be. –Bullinger

    Every other sect supposes itself in possession of the truth, and that those who differ are so far in the wrong. Like a man traveling in foggy weather they see those at a distance before them wrapped up in a fog, as well as those behind them, and also people in the fields on each side; but near them, all appears clear, though in truth they are as much in the fog as any of them. –Benjamin Franklin

    Oh these foolish men! They could not create so much as a worm, but they create gods by the dozens. –Michel de Montaigne

    All religions are the same: religion is basically guilt, with different holidays. –Cathy Ladman

    Religion can never reform mankind because religion is slavery. –Robert Ingersoll

    Religion stinks of death. –Gary Amirault

    Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. –Lucius Annaeus Seneca

    The tragedy of religion is partly due to its isolation from life, as if God could be segregated.—Abraham Joshua Heschel

    Those who think all religions are the same look at the wrappings instead of the content. –Gene Edward Veith

    Things that will destroy man: Politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity; worship without sacrifice. –Mohandas Gandhi

    The Church is looking for better methods; God is looking for better men. –E. M. Bounds

    In the beginning the church was a fellowship of men and women centering on the living Christ. Then the church moved to Greece where it became a philosophy. Then it moved to Rome where it became an institution. Next, it moved to Europe, where it became a culture. And, finally, it moved to America where it became an enterprise.–Richard Halverson

    Any man or woman who neglects to maintain inward vigilance, and only makes an outward show of holiness in dress, speech, and behavior, is a wretched creature. For they watch the doings of other people and criticize their faults, imagining themselves to be something when in reality they are nothing. In this way they deceive themselves. Be careful to avoid this, and devote yourself inwardly to His likeness by humility, charity, and other spiritual virtues. In this way you will be truly converted to God. –Walter Hilton

    Those Christians who are very strict in their observances, think a good deal more of the Sabbath than of man, a great deal more of the Bible than of the truth, and ten times more of their creed than of the will of God. Of course, if they heard anyone utter such words as I have just written, they would say he was and atheist. –George MacDonald

    I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works … I mean real good works … not holy day keeping, sermon-hearing … or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity. — Benjamin Franklin

    One chief cause of the amount of unbelief in the world is tha tthose who have seen something of the glory of Christ set themselves to theorize concerning him rather than to obey him. –George MacDonald

    Christians, needless to say, utterly detest one another; they slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse, and cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teaching. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense. –Celsus (178 AD)

    In order to justify their behavior, they turn their theories into dogmas, their bylaws into First Principles, their political bosses into Gods and all those who disagree with them into incarnate devils. This idolatrous transformation of the relative into the Absolute and the all too human into the Divine, makes it possible for them to indulge their ugliest passions with a clear conscience and in the certainty that they are working for the Highest Good. And when the current beliefs come, in their turn, to look silly, a new set will be invented, so that the immemorial madness may continue to wear its customary mask of legality, idealism, and true religion. –Aldous Huxley

    The difference between heresy and prophecy is often one of sequence. Heresy often turns out to have been prophecy — when properly aged. –Hubert H. Humphrey

    A cult is a religion with no political power. –Tom Wolfe

    I am surrounded by priests who repeat incessantly that their kingdom is not of this world, and yet they lay their hands on everything they can get. –Napolean Bonaparte

    In nothing do the words of Christian liturgy strike the ears of contemporary men and women as ‘empty ritual’ so much as when they speak of a loving, Spirit-filled community where none is visible.– Leonel Mitchell

    I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature. –Thomas Jefferson

    The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad. –Friedrich Nietzsche

    Why do born-again people so often make you wish they’d never been born the first time?- Katherine Whitehorn, British Journalist, The Observer, May 20, 1979

    If it weren’t for Christians, I’d be a Christian.– Mahatma Ghandi

    I would have met Jesus sooner if not for Christians who led double lives. – Keith Green

    I might believe in the Redeemer if His followers looked more Redeemed.– Fredrick Nietzsche

    It has always seemed unfair to me that many churches (and some individual Christians) keep careful records on how many converts they make to Christianity, but never keep any record of how many they drive away from Christ! — Ray C. Stedman

    The church is always trying to get other people to reform; it might not be a bad idea to reform itself a little by way of example. –Mark Twain

    If the truth were known, many sermons are prepared and preached with more regard for the sermon than the souls of the hearers. –George F. Pentecost

    The Church says the Earth is flat. But I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow on the Moon. And I have more faith in a shadow than in the Church. –Robert Ingersoll

    People in religions are too busy doing their thing to even notice that God is doing His. –Martin Zender

    Religious men are and must be heretics now— for we must not pray, except in a “form” of words, made beforehand— or think of God but with a prearranged idea. –Florence Nightingale

    A fanatic is someone who cannot change his mind and will not change the subject.—Sir Winston Churchill

    The underlying foundation of all religion is performance – whether it’s a tribal dance around a campfire to satisfy the fire god, or a dead religious activity performed week after week by an evangelical Christian with the intent of impressing his God. It’s all religious performance, and God isn’t impressed by our performance. What impresses Him is faith.– Steve McVey

    The world is by no means averse to religion. In fact, it is devoted to it with a passion. It will buy any recipe for salvation as long as that formula leaves the responsibility for cooking up salvation firmly in human hands. The world is drowning in religion. But it is scared out of its wits by any mention of the grace that takes the world home gratis. –Robert Farrer Capon

    Religion is the fashionable substitute for belief. – Oscar Wilde

    Christianity is NOT a religion; it is the proclamation of the end of religion. Religion is a human activity dedicated to the job of reconciling God to humanity and humanity to itself. The Gospel, however – the Good News of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, is the astonishing announcement that God has done the whole work of reconciliation without a scrap of human assistance. It is the bizarre proclamation that religion is over – period. –Robert F. Capon

    Christians have always tended to transform the Christian Revelation into a Christian religion. Christianity is said to be a religion like any other or, conversely, some Christians try to show that it is a better religion than the others. People attempt to take possession of God. Theology claims to explain everything, including the being of God. People tend to transform Christianity into a religion because the Christian faith obviously places people in an extremely uncomfortable position ­ that of freedom guided only by love and all in the context of God’s radical demand that we be holy. –Jacques Ellul

    The truly wise talk little about religion and are not given to taking sides on doctrinal issues. When they hear people advocating or opposing the claims of this or that party in the church, they turn away with a smile such as men yield to the talk of children. They have no time, they would say, for that kind of thing. They have enough to do in trying to faithfully practice what is beyond dispute. –George MacDonald

    Isn’t it strange that people place so much emphasis upon going to church when there is not one command from Jesus to do so, and yet neglect the basic duties of our ordinary life which are commanded on every page of the Gospels? —William Law

    Most of us spend the first six days of the week sowing wild oats, then we go to church on Sunday and pray for a crop failure.– Fred Allen

    Being a Methodist, a Catholic, or a Baptist does not make one a disciple, it only makes him a Methodist, a Catholic, or a Baptist, who may or may not be a daily follower of Jesus Christ. –Michael Phillips

    In the beginning the church was a fellowship of men and women centering on the living Christ. Then the church moved to Greece where it became a philosophy. Then it moved to Rome where it became an institution. Next, it moved to Europe , where it became a culture. And, finally, it moved to America where it became an enterprise.–Richard Halverson, former chaplain of the United States Senate

    The self-righteous, relying on the many good works he imagines he has performed, seems to hold salvation in his own hand, and considers Heaven as a just reward of his merits. In the bitterness of his zeal he exclaims against all sinners, and represents the gates of mercy as barred against them, and Heaven as a place to which they have no claim. What need have such self-righteous persons of a Saviour? they are already burdened with the load of their own merits. Oh, how long they bear the flattering load, while sinners divested of everything, fly rapidly on the wings of faith and love into their Saviour’s arms, who freely bestows on them that which he has so freely promised! –Jeanne Guyon

    The best argument for Christianity is Christians: their joy, their certainty, their completeness. But the strongest argument against Christianity is also Christians–when they are somber and joyless, when they are self-righteous and smug in complacent consecration, when they are narrow and repressive, then Christianity dies a thousand deaths. –Joe Aldrich

    Everyday people are straying away from the church and going back to God. –Lennie Bruce

    Being religious means asking passionately the question of the meaning of our existence and being willing to receive answers, even if the answers hurt. –Paul Tillich

    Beware you be not swallowed up in books! An ounce of love is worth a pound of knowledge. –John Wesley

    Be careful your head doesn’t grow faster than your heart. –Anonymous

    The Pentecostal power, when you sum it all up, is just more of God’s love. If it does not bring more love, it is simply a counterfeit.– William J. Seymour

    Everywhere the apostle Paul went, he either had a revival, or he had a riot. Sometimes he a revival and a riot. That’s what I want to be said of me. –Wade Akins

    If those who had set themselves to explain the various theories of Christianity had set themselves instead to do the will of the Master, how different the world would be now! –George MacDonald

    Whoever shall introduce into public affairs the principles of primitive Christianity will change the face of the world. –Benjamin Franklin

    Reality, in fact, is always something you couldn’t have guessed. That’s one of the reasons I believe Christianity. It’s a religion you couldn’t have guessed. C.S. Lewis

    Men choose a religion, but a Christian is chosen by Jesus Christ. —Iranian martyr Mehdi Dibaj

    Let your religion be less of a theory and more of a love affair. –G.K. Chesterton

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  20. A lot of good stuff there, Blubonnet, by famous people who questioned the practices and practitioners of Christianity in no uncertain terms. I personally reached my point of skepticism at the age of 23, and have not changed since, only having my reservations confirmed time and time again by professing Christians. I suppose I would conclude the same about Islam as well, were I ever immersed in it. I view most every organized religion as just one more political party aimed at controlling people more than aimed at encouraging people to be better people.

    Here is a particularly inciteful quote from your collection of many:

    “The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooist brutality, is patently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with the dogma of a sect [or political party], though capable of the clearest proof, and you will soon find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes. –John Adams”

    I think John Adams here describes the behavior of today’s extremist Republican Party, although he is referring to a religious sect. Thus the Republican Party has come to behave just like a religious sect, a collection of absolutists. It is their way or the highway – there’s no way for absolutists to compromise with anybody on anything!

  21. I think John Adams here describes the behavior of today’s extremist Republican Party, although he is referring to a religious sect. Thus the Republican Party has come to behave just like a religious sect, a collection of absolutists. It is their way or the highway – there’s no way for absolutists to compromise with anybody on anything!

    Yeah, sort of like hypocritical a-holes who scream about “extremist language” from their political opponents all the time, yet engage in it themselves on a daily, nay, hourly basis.

    Give it up, Herr Fossil. You can’t debate when you can’t remember what you typed five minutes ago.

  22. Perry wrote:

    Thus the Republican Party has come to behave just like a religious sect, a collection of absolutists. It is their way or the highway – there’s no way for absolutists to compromise with anybody on anything!

    If you are right, why meet in the middle with those who are wrong?

    However, you’ve totally missed what has been happening. The Republicans have been standing their ground, very firmly, and thus have gotten more of what they wanted out of the “compromises” which have occurred so far than have the Democrats.

    We gave in on the debt ceiling, but got more back out of the deal than the Democrats did, albeit not everything we wanted. We were adamant about not raising taxes, and, lo and behold, the 2001/2003 tax cuts were extended for everybody. We were adamant about refusing to go along with President Obama’s first two years of initiatives, and we mitigated some, despite being very outnumbered by the Democrats in Congress, and the voters rewarded us with majority control in the House and seven additional seats in the Senate.

  23. Perry wrote:

    Thus the Republican Party has come to behave just like a religious sect, a collection of absolutists. It is their way or the highway – there’s no way for absolutists to compromise with anybody on anything!

    If you are right, why meet in the middle with those who are wrong?

    However, you’ve totally missed what has been happening. The Republicans have been standing their ground, very firmly, and thus have gotten more of what they wanted out of the “compromises” which have occurred so far than have the Democrats.

    We gave in on the debt ceiling, but got more back out of the deal than the Democrats did, albeit not everything we wanted. We were adamant about not raising taxes, and, lo and behold, the 2001/2003 tax cuts were extended for everybody. We were adamant about refusing to go along with President Obama’s first two years of initiatives, and we mitigated some, despite being very outnumbered by the Democrats in Congress, and the voters rewarded us with majority control in the House and seven additional seats in the Senate.

    Right, Dana, how can anyone meet in the middle with absolutists? It’s impossible, so they must be voted out of power, conclusively, in spite of Citizens United!

    Your party has totally failed at governing, as the decade of the 2000′s well demonstrates. Now your intention is to falsely blame your failures on Obama, who has done his best to pick this country back up, with remarkable success; but granted, there’s lots more to be done, as Obama himself acknowledges.

    And yes, on the debt ceiling fight, you did stand your ground, causing our credit rating to drop and chaos in the world markets. Now that’s really something to be proud of!

    And on taxes, you got the deal that continued to skew the wealth to the already wealthy, already more skewed than just before the Great Depression. Good going, wingnuts!

    And now you brag about using the filibuster to thwart the agenda of an elected official and his party, thwarting also a very basic concept of democracy, majority rule. Be real proud of that, Dana the Machiavellian consort.

    Yes, the voters “rewarded” you, for what? For the hole that your policies put us in. Just goes to show how panicked so many Americans have become, and that your party cleverly exploited this panic for your own political gain, while in the process driving our country further into a ditch with your stupid policies.

    I’ll acknowledge that your corrupted propaganda machine, backed by your powerful rich, has prevailed, to the detriment of the country you claim to love, all a ruse to acquire more wealth and power, to hell with the American middle and poor.

    Hopefully, reason and real patriotism will prevail in the 2012 elections, so that we can put this country back on track fiscally, for the government and the average American family, like it was pre-1980. The absolutist Republican reign of terror must be stopped. Hopefully it is not too late.

    [Added: And Dana, I refer you back to here, for a well-founded critique of your absolutist wingnut punditry.

  24. “Hmm, we know everything about the Republican candidates, and BO is still on his magical mystery tour.”

    Yorkshire, this is all more of the birther-like stuff, which is just more of the effort of wingnuts to discredit Obama in any way possible. Why were like questions not asked by you people of Bush?

    The point is, these are meaningless attempts at distractions by the right wing media from important policy issues that we ought to be focused on. This is what the right wing media does all the time, and you fall for it!

  25. The point is, these are meaningless attempts at distractions by the right wing media from important policy issues that we ought to be focused on. This is what the right wing media does all the time, and you fall for it!

    Copy and paste, Copy and paste, Copy and paste, Copy and paste, Copy and paste, Copy and paste, Copy and paste … talking points, talking points, talking points, talking points, talking points, talking points, talking points, talking points …

    Gap bridging my ass, you senile fraud.

  26. Exactly who is this “right wing media” of which you speak, Perry? Would that be the NY Times, Philadelphia Inquirer, Washington Post, CNN, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, CNBC or just Fox? Cause if it’s just Fox that wouldn’t constitute a “right wing media”. It would only constitute ONE right thinking channel.

    But I would like to thank you and the other economic genius who blogs here. Betting against you two clucks always makes me money. When I see things like “money isn’t wealth” or “governments can print more money” or stupid things like the government does not have to operate like a business (in other words the laws of economics don’t apply) all I have to do is put my money where your marxist philosophy won’t go. So I bought 200 ounces of gold at around $1,400 per ounce. Wow, right now it’s over $1,800 per ounce. Thank you. I think I’ll sell today and wait till it dips below $1,800, buy it back and ride it to $2,000. I made more money (not wealth mind you, just money) off of trading gold this year than the two of you have earned in two years. But that’s to be expected when marxist idiots are in power. You socialist morons can print more dollars or euros but you can’t print more gold. Every economic problem in the Euro-zone and America today can be traced directly back to irresponsable socialist tax/spend/borrow/print philosophies of the last decades. Now you fools are actually running out of other people’s money and you don’t know what to do. Your only answer is print more, borrow more, tax more and spend more. How well has that worked out for you? It sounds like the deffinition of insanity to me, how about you?

    You’ll also be happy to know that because of the regulations and bull crap hoops your fellow marxist travelers have put up as road blocks to business, I will not be opening a new Italian market in Bryn Athyn this year. Instead, my wife and I decided to infuse 2.1 million into our restaurants in Korea to open 20 more units by spring of 2012. How’s that Obamanomics working out for you? We’ve also accepted an offer of 1.56 million for our condo in Boca (over twice what we paid for it) in this “down real estate market”. That means once we get an offer for our stately Montgomery County property, we are free to move to Bermuda.

    I hope the last Working American (that means not on unemployment, Social Security, welfare, food stamps or the government payroll) remembers to turn off the lights. Your guy Obama has done a bang up job at “fundamentally transforming” America all right. He’s changed it into a place no one wants to do business. They used to say: “America’s business IS business”. Under Obama America’s business is killing business. But that’s okay. When there’s nobody left but you socialists, where are you gonna get the tax money from? Oh wait! That would be Atlas shrugging, wouldn’t it?

    Now I know how you’re going to say that I’m unpatriotic and un-American. But when guys like me (and working guys all over the nation) confront the open hostility and contempt you letist moonbats have for achievement, we don’t just sit here and take it. We react, and you don’t like it when we do. So as long as you, your moonbat messiah, and your economic heros like Krugman and the idiot librarian are in charge, guys like me will continue to refuse to invest in America. I think it’s you guys who are unpatrioitc, not I. Everything you own from the car you drive to the house you live in to the food you eat is there because some hard working or risk taking person has created it for you. And your hostility for their efforts has not gone unnoticed. And every time you start your socialist song about how we need to tax this guy or that guy, or how unfair everything is or how how Joe has too much wealth but poor Billy dosen’t we hear you loud and clear. And what we hear is the age old song of envy which leads to force. The song is the enemy of freedom and though the tune may change the words are always the same.

    [released from moderation - pH]

  27. Perry says:
    18 August 2011 at 08:53 (Edit)
    Perry wrote:

    Right, Dana, how can anyone meet in the middle with absolutists? It’s impossible,

    Obominable Care is a great example Perry. Dems were absolute in passing it no matter what the Reps thought. If a Rep didn’t like parts of it, too bad. It wasn’t like what don’t you like, we’ll fix it. Wait, no dem said that.

  28. Perry says:
    18 August 2011 at 09:14 (Edit)
    “Hmm, we know everything about the Republican candidates, and BO is still on his magical mystery tour.”

    Yorkshire, this is all more of the birther-like stuff, which is just more of the effort of wingnuts to discredit Obama in any way possible. Why were like questions not asked by you people of Bush?

    Dan Rather! Remember the false military claims?????
    BO was barely vetted and scrutinized. And if you did, you were a racist.

  29. “Obominable Care is a great example Perry. Dems were absolute in passing it no matter what the Reps thought. If a Rep didn’t like parts of it, too bad. It wasn’t like what don’t you like, we’ll fix it. Wait, no dem said that.”

    Yorkshire, recall that the health care debate was held hostage by the filibuster threat, resulting in a less than optimum bill, in my view. Single payer, or at least a public option, would have been better. Instead, we still have the privates in there whose profits drive up the cost of health care faster than the too fast rate we already have had.

    But you tell me, Yorkshire, what is the Repub solution to getting insurance for the 50 million Americans who are currently uninsured, and to reducing the rate of growth of health care costs? I don’t recall their having any plan, ever!

  30. Dan Rather! Remember the false military claims?????

    And where were they proven false, Yorkie? Rather was handed forged documents “proving” the allegation, which he foolishly accepted; the allegation itself was never disproven, and there is sufficient other evidence to make it reasonable.

    Indeed, it’s a great example of political tactic to distract from a true allegation – provide “evidence” that can easily be discredited, and then make teh story about that evidence rather than the actual allegation.

    [released from moderation - pH]

  31. “Dan Rather! Remember the false military claims?????
    BO was barely vetted and scrutinized. And if you did, you were a racist.”

    Yorkshire, what “false military claims” are you talking about? I guess it must have been the Dan Rather thing that Limbaugh talked about.

    Obama was vetted completely, and many lies and false associations arose from that vetting because of the right-wing media exaggerations and lies, and yes, because of racism. I just don’t know how else to explain the right-wing hatred for the man, which persists to this day. Why don’t you focus on the policies you don’t like, instead of trying to personally vilify him?

    So yes, the out-and-out hatred of Obama is the symptom of both political extremism on the right, and racism, in my opinion! The idea of having an African-American as our top man seems to be just too much for certain folks to take, otherwise the focus would be only on the issues.

    And I have to ask, why aren’t you folks railing at the do-nothing, dysfunctional Congress? Oh, never mind, that’s what you Righties want, so for you, Congress is 100% and Obama is 20%. For the rest of the country, Obama is at 40%, and Congress is at 20%. So who is in touch with the people here.

    Here we have a country in decline due to Republican excesses, and you Righties want to do nothing, because by some mysterious, unidentified force, we will right ourselves and everything will be just fine, just like they were 2000-2008. You people are nuts!!!

  32. Oh, and by the way, w1ngnuts.

    The stimulus spending has run its course, and govgernment budgets have started to reduce spending.

    And whattya know…

    LATEST: Rising fears of another recession have hammered global stocks, with Wall Street’s major indexes falling sharply in a rerun of the extreme fluctuations investors had hoped were over.

    The Dow Jones industrial average was down 3.67 percent, at 10,991.04, according to the latest figures. The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index was down 4.45 percent, at 1,140.74 and the Nasdaq Composite Index dropped 5.22 percent, to 2,380.43.

    Renewed worries about Europe’s debt crisis and a raft of weak US economic data have sparked a rout in global equities, while gold shot to new highs and US bond yields hit record lows as investors sought safety.
    [...]
    An unexpected fall in existing home sales in July and a greater-than-expected rise in new claims for jobless benefits in the latest week added to fears that the US economic recovery could be derailed.

    Aversion to risk swept financial markets. Corporate bonds, industrial commodities and higher-yielding currencies slid, and assets viewed as safe-havens, such as gold, government bonds and the dollar, gained.
    Ad Feedback

    “The market is beginning to price in a recession. The Philadelphia Fed number was an absolute abomination,” said Michael Hewson, market analyst at CMC Markets in London.

    Gee, it sure looks like cutting spending in a recession makes teh situation worse, doesn’t it?

  33. Perry wrote:

    Right, Dana, how can anyone meet in the middle with absolutists? It’s impossible, so they must be voted out of power, conclusively, in spite of Citizens United!

    Well, y’all will have your chance, just 14½ months from now; let’s see if that happens. Of course, there is another possibility: it just might turn out that it isn’t the Republicans who are voted out of power.

  34. Perry wrote:

    And now you brag about using the filibuster to thwart the agenda of an elected official and his party, thwarting also a very basic concept of democracy, majority rule. Be real proud of that, Dana the Machiavellian consort.

    I think that I’ll save this comment, Perry, because I have a sneaking suspicion that you are going to find the filibuster rule far more to your liking in the next Congress.

  35. Perry wrote:

    Yorkshire, recall that the health care debate was held hostage by the filibuster threat, resulting in a less than optimum bill, in my view. Single payer, or at least a public option, would have been better. Instead, we still have the privates in there whose profits drive up the cost of health care faster than the too fast rate we already have had.

    Let’s see, neither President Obama nor anyone with any real influence in Congress even proposed single-payer, though a few of the far-left knuckleheads like Dennis Kucinich did. President Obama campaigned on something similar to what was passed. So, trying to claim that it was we wicked Republicans who prevented single-payer is just plain bovine feces.

    The public option? Remember, y’all had the sixty votes you needed in the Senate without our help, and the public option was killed by Senator Ben Nelson (D – NB), Senator Kent Conrad (D – ND) and Senatrix Blanche Lincoln (D – AR).

    But you tell me, Yorkshire, what is the Repub solution to getting insurance for the 50 million Americans who are currently uninsured, and to reducing the rate of growth of health care costs? I don’t recall their having any plan, ever!

    Well, my plan is to do nothing at all, to let the free market work its will, and if someone doesn’t choose to buy health insurance, that’s his decision, and his problem. If he gets sick, and can’t pay his bills, everything he owns should be seized to pay off his debts.

  36. Perry wrote:

    Yes, the voters “rewarded” you, for what? For the hole that your policies put us in. Just goes to show how panicked so many Americans have become, and that your party cleverly exploited this panic for your own political gain, while in the process driving our country further into a ditch with your stupid policies.

    I’ll acknowledge that your corrupted propaganda machine, backed by your powerful rich, has prevailed, to the detriment of the country you claim to love, all a ruse to acquire more wealth and power, to hell with the American middle and poor.

    Do i detect a note of frustration there, Perry? Do I detect a simmering anger that the voters just didn’t see the obvious wisdom of your policies?

    Well, dude, if the voters just somehow didn’t accept your (plural) arguments, apparently you just didn’t make them well enough. If the public looked at the foundering economy and pitiful job market — and it looks like Hoagie just decided not to help with job creation here, because of all of the bureaucratic roadblocks that were thrown in his way — and decided to hold the people currently in office responsible for them, apparently y’all just weren’t successful in persuading them that the out-of-power Republicans were still to blame. Those are your failures, not ours.

    Hopefully, reason and real patriotism will prevail in the 2012 elections, so that we can put this country back on track fiscally, for the government and the average American family, like it was pre-1980. The absolutist Republican reign of terror must be stopped. Hopefully it is not too late.

    I just happen to remember what the economy was like “pre-1980,” Perry. We had “stagflation,” we had rising unemployment, we had the famous “misery index,” and we had former Governor Ronald Reagan (R-CA) asking the American people, “Are you better off today than you were four years ago?”

    Perhaps you’ll recall just what happened to then-President Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, when the public, who had so enthusiastically voted him into the White House just four years earlier, looked at that “pre-1980″ economy?

    Ahhh, but let me guess: you voted for President Carter in 1980, didn’t you?

  37. DP:
    Let’s see, neither President Obama nor anyone with any real influence in Congress even proposed single-payer, though a few of the far-left knuckleheads like Dennis Kucinich did. President Obama campaigned on something similar to what was passed. So, trying to claim that it was we wicked Republicans who prevented single-payer is just plain bovine feces.

    The public option? Remember, y’all had the sixty votes you needed in the Senate without our help, and the public option was killed by Senator Ben Nelson (D – NB), Senator Kent Conrad (D – ND) and Senatrix Blanche Lincoln (D – AR).

    Come’on Dana, you know full well it was Bush’s and the Reps fault. If the Reps would have DONE the right thing, they would have lost another 3 to 5 sets in the Senate to give BO more breathing room. But they had to ruin it all.

  38. Perry says:
    18 August 2011 at 16:27 (Edit)
    “Dan Rather! Remember the false military claims?????
    BO was barely vetted and scrutinized. And if you did, you were a racist.”

    Yorkshire, what “false military claims” are you talking about? I guess it must have been the Dan Rather thing that Limbaugh talked about.

    You really do go brain dead.

  39. Perry says:
    18 August 2011 at 12:40 (Edit)
    “Obominable Care is a great example Perry. Dems were absolute in passing it no matter what the Reps thought. If a Rep didn’t like parts of it, too bad. It wasn’t like what don’t you like, we’ll fix it. Wait, no dem said that.”

    Yorkshire, recall that the health care debate was held hostage by the filibuster threat, resulting in a less than optimum bill, in my view. Single payer, or at least a public option, would have been better. Instead, we still have the privates in there whose profits drive up the cost of health care faster than the too fast rate we already have had.

    Too bad that didn’t work out. If it was so great, the Reps would have supported it. But the Courts are doing a good job. And remember, BO is a Constitutional Scholar. But he never said what country. Maybe Kenya.

  40. Phoenician in a time of Romans says:
    18 August 2011 at 12:56 (Edit)
    Dan Rather! Remember the false military claims?????

    And where were they proven false, Yorkie? Rather was handed forged documents “proving” the allegation, which he foolishly accepted; the allegation itself was never disproven, and there is sufficient other evidence to make it reasonable.

    Indeed, it’s a great example of political tactic to distract from a true allegation – provide “evidence” that can easily be discredited, and then make teh story about that evidence rather than the actual allegation.

    A three year old could see the holes in that one. Written on a modern puter, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I know, if it was about Bush, it had to be true. The credibility of the holders of those bogus players was nil anyway. What they had to do is prove it true, not Bush prove it false. And it was proven false in a NY second. I held up their copy and typed a copy in the same type and font, held it to the light, perfect match. Puter word processors weren’t around when it was SUPPOSEDLY written. You guys are sooooooooooooo gullible when hate comes into play. Another good laugh.

  41. Hopefully, reason and real patriotism will prevail in the 2012 elections, so that we can put this country back on track fiscally, for the government and the average American family, like it was pre-1980. The absolutist Republican reign of terror must be stopped. Hopefully it is not too late.

    I just happen to remember what the economy was like “pre-1980,” Perry. We had “stagflation,” we had rising unemployment, we had the famous “misery index,” and we had former Governor Ronald Reagan (R-CA) asking the American people, “Are you better off today than you were four years ago?”

    Perhaps you’ll recall just what happened to then-President Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, when the public, who had so enthusiastically voted him into the White House just four years earlier, looked at that “pre-1980? economy?

    Funny, I remember the Carter Malaise, the Carter Stagflation, the Carter Misery Index as well. I remember “Are you better off today than you were four years ago” as well, and the resultant answer from the voting public: “NO! We are not.” And Reagan took over. And the economy went on the longest post-WWII growth spree to that time. I also remember reading a college History textbook discussing the Carter Malaise, Carter Stagflation, Carter Misery Index (but trying to excuse Carter for it). The textbook went on to explain what Reagan did economically and that the economy made a sharp turn-around, but the textbook was very quick to claim that the turnaround and boom had absolutely nothing to do with what Reagan pushed. Must’ve been pure coincidence or something that everything was bad while the Leftist Loon Carter was in charge but became good once the Conservative Ronald Reagan took the reins.

    By the way, that college textbook was written around 2000 for THE Ohio State University’s “American History, 1865 to present” mandatory history course. So, its acknowledgement that the Carter years were rather bad and the Reagan years were rather good was not, in any way, a Conservative declaration.

    Apparently, even many Government Universities aren’t so radically left-wing daft as to attempt to lie about the 1970s and 1980s as badly as the radical Leftist Perry does.

  42. Hitchcock, nobody nowadays remembers the Carter Malsise. That is a “non-issue” with these commie nuts. Just a bunch of backwater pinko’s and that’s all they’re ever be. I’m tellin’ you, insanity…that’s their political platform. Keep repeating the same stupid shit over and over and (the kids) someone like Blubonnet will believe it. I could be wrong, perhaps we should spend more money we don’t have on phoney jobs we can’t show for fake prosperity which dosen’t exist.

    I love it. I’m getting richer and they aren’t. But They are the eonomic guru’s. Ha-ha.

  43. BTW, the idea that the President needs to go on vacation is rediculous. But I love the fact that a “man of the people” (as all Democrats are) sees fit to shove a finger up our collective asses at this time. Yep! Democrats are for the people! What a bunch of dick-heads!

    Marthard’s Vinyard? Suck my Irish cock. You Democrats are such phoneys and liars it’s hard to not laugh at every word you speak. Wait! It’s not, just laugh. Liars, liars, pants on fire.

  44. BTW, the idea that the President needs to go on vacation is rediculous. But I love the fact that a “man of the people” (as all Democrats are) sees fit to shove a finger up our collective asses at this time. Yep! Democrats are for the people! What a bunch of dick-heads!

    First year of office, vacation days:

    - Obama – 26.
    - Reagan – 42.
    - Bush Fr – 77.

    After 31 months (i.e. now for Obama):

    - Obama – 61 days.
    - Reagan – 112 days.
    - Bush Jr – 180 days.
    (And Bill Clinton – 28)

    Let’s stress that again – during his first 31 months on the job, Geroge Bush Jr took 180 days of vacation. During his eight years, he took 418 days of vacation – while starting two wars and sitting through a couple of major disasters. Come to think of it, he was on a month long vacation during Hurrican Katrina, continued on vacation at the start of NO breaking down, and only came back when people started expressing disgust – missing two whole days of precious vacation time.

    W1ngnut hypocracy – you’re soaking in it.

  45. The younger President Bush went on “vacation” to Ptairie Chapel Ranch, his home outside of Crawford, texas. It was completely set up with all of the communications requirements for the President, and had plenty of staff available. He even received some foreign heads of state at his ranch, so it’s not like he was somehow away from work.

    Presidents are never really away from work.

  46. Presidents are never really away from work.

    Perhaps you ought to be explaining this to your deranged little friend, Hoagie? Hell, even I can be contacted by work during my “vacations”.

    Those figures again – Obama 61 days, Bush 180 days.


  47. Dallas Fed Chief separates “fact from fiction” on Texas jobs


    Posted on August 19th, 2011

    On Wednesday, Richard Fisher, President and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, gave a speech in which he separated “fact from fiction” about the record of job creation in Texas.

    Key facts from his remarks include:

    Texas Job Growth is Indisputable: “These are the facts. You may select whichever metric you wish. Regardless, it is reasonable to assume Texas has accounted for a significant amount of the nation’s employment growth both over the past 20 years and since the recession officially ended.”

    Most new jobs are unrelated to the oil and gas sector: “The most jobs have been created in the educational and health services sector, which accounts for 13.5 percent of Texas’ employment. The second-most jobs have been created in the professional and business services sector, which accounts for 12.5 percent of the Texas workforce. The mining sector, which includes support activities for both mining and oil and gas, employs 2.1 percent (yes, two-point-one percent) of Texas’ workers.”

    Most New Jobs Pay Good Wages: “…these jobs are not low-paying jobs. The average weekly wage in the education and health services sector is $790; in the professional and business services sector it is $1,117; and in the mining sector, the average weekly wage is $2,271. Together these three sectors account for 68 percent of the jobs that have been created in Texas in the past two years.”

    Texas job gains are a result of pro-growth policies on taxes, spending and regulations: “…people and businesses have been picking up stakes and moving to Texas in significant numbers over a prolonged period… And yet Texas, like all states, is subject to the same monetary policy as all the rest… From this, I draw the conclusion that private sector capital and jobs will go to where taxes and spending and regulatory policy are most conducive to growth.”

    To create jobs, Washington must address taxes, spending and regulations: “The Committee of 12 and the president have an awesome task. Essentially, they must reboot our entire system of economic incentives and come forward with an updated tax and spending and regulatory regime that incentivizes businesses to invest in the United States and create jobs for American workers rather than gravitate to foreign shores.”

    The Dallas Fed will provide ongoing updates to counteract inaccurate information: “The Dallas Fed will henceforth be providing monthly updates on employment in Texas through our website at http://www.dallasfed.org. We hope it will be a useful tool for everyone ranging from columnists who write for the New York Times to the pundits who provide commentary for Fox News, as well as serious economists.”

    The full text of Mr Fisher’s remarks can be found here.

  48. LOL, the Federal Reserve is the mover and shaker in ALL corruption. Sorry, Dana, you need to do some research on the FED.

  49. Richard Fisher, President and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, gave a speech

    Uh-huh.

    Texas job gains are a result of pro-growth policies on taxes, spending and regulations: “…people and businesses have been picking up stakes and moving to Texas in significant numbers over a prolonged period… And yet Texas, like all states, is subject to the same monetary policy as all the rest… From this, I draw the conclusion that private sector capital and jobs will go to where taxes and spending and regulatory policy are most conducive to growth.”

    To create jobs, Washington must address taxes, spending and regulations:

    Translations: “Texas is winning the race for teh bottom, therefore everyone can win the race for the bottom”.

    There’s a marvellous example of how to lie with statistics in that speech, where he talks about new jobs in a sector and then the average wages within that sector. The relevant statistic to quote would be the median wage for the new jobs created – but he’s not giving that. Thus the presence of existing high pay jobs (such as, say, doctors) would hide the fact of growth in shitty jobs (such as, say, nursing aides).

  50. OMG, I find myself standing with Conservatives on something. This is old, by the way, and I think we all can agree that money is the blood of a monster. Whether it is Left leaning monster or a right leaning monster, the corruption is the monster, and it controls that which we already give our money, to be controlled. Don’t be a chump. This is far better than the Saturday evening movie, I’ll tell ya. What aspects of our system support the big boys, rather than the teams, us, that pay them, well, they live off of us, not for us. They keep you skippin’ and a fetchin’ for them, and then suck your banks dry. Creating problems creates more of a cash flow. War is one of the best ways too. Media is a handy tool as well. They are a legion of billionaires, that want to keep it that way. You are a fool to overlook these things. Don’t think the MSM play this documentary. It implicates them. Time to wake up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu_VqX6J93k

  51. It’s amusing how our Kiwi Kommenter attacks Richard Fisher, President and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, when Mr Fisher says something he doesn’t like, yet happily quotes Ben Bernanke, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board when he says something the Phoenician does like.

    There’s a marvellous example of how to lie with statistics in that speech, where he talks about new jobs in a sector and then the average wages within that sector. The relevant statistic to quote would be the median wage for the new jobs created – but he’s not giving that. Thus the presence of existing high pay jobs (such as, say, doctors) would hide the fact of growth in shitty jobs (such as, say, nursing aides).

    Well, how about this bit of actual research?

    That statement would imply that Texans are working for minimum wage and must be living at poverty levels compared to other states.

    Here’s a thought … isn’t a low paying job in Texas better than being jobless in another state?

    Having a job is only one part of the Texas equation – the other significant part is Texas’ low cost of living. The Cost of Living (COL) index takes into account prices on a variety of basic goods and services, including groceries, housing, utilities, healthcare, and transportation, as well as common expenses like movie tickets and newspapers. These disparate costs of living can mean that a salary in one city has a far different value than the same amount of money in another city.

    While it is true that Texas median household income ($48,259) is less than some states like California, New York, and Connecticut, the state does fare well when the income is adjusted by the Cost of Living (COL). When the COL is factored in, Texas’ median household income ($53,009) exceeds California by $8,550, exceeds New York’s by $10,403, and Connecticut’s by $1,532. These are 2009 figures from the U.S. Census Bureau reported in a U.S. News article.

    Note that those figures are based on median income (a midpoint, as many above as below). Please explain: if Texas has been creating only minimum wage jobs, how is the Texas median income still $48,259? A minimum wage job in Texas would only earn $15,080/yr?

    Here is a direct comparison illustrating how much the cost of living affects one’s standard of living. Let’s look at two cities, Los Angeles and Dallas. When Dallas is compared to L.A., here is the result: “The cost of living in Dallas is lower than the cost of living in Los Angeles. If you make $100,000.00 in Los Angeles and move to Dallas, you will only need to make $62,862.55 ($37,137.45 less) to maintain the same buying power.” The comparison is from Inflation Data.com where you can compare two selected cities against one another.

    And here’s another objective, authoritative comparison:

    Texas is ranked third among “Best States to make a living.” The ranking is based on an Adjusted Average Income value which considers taxes, housing, and cost of living. Texas’ average is $41,427. Compared to Massachusetts: $38,665, Minnesota: $37,721, and California: $29,772 just to compare a few. This from CBS MoneyWatch, April, 2011.

    And finally, Texas places two metro areas, Houston ($60,634) and Dallas ($59,217) among the top ten metro areas in the nation with the highest real income. Real income is the median household income adjusted by the COL. Compare those figures with a couple of other large metro areas from the bottom ten: New York ($35,370) and Los Angeles ($41,331). The figures are from a June, 2011 analysis by the U.S. News using latest available (2009) data.

    And what about wages? Texas has seen wages climb faster than the country overall. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average wage for employees in Texas rose 7.4% between May 2008 and May 2010 (the latest data available). For the nation as a whole, average wages climbed only 5%. This from Investors.com.

    So, contrary to the poverty implied by the original criticism, the standard of living in Texas isn’t as bad as the “low paying” statement (if true) would indicate – the accusation is just an another attempt to diminish the job creation achievement, Texas’ standard of living, and by association, Governor Perry. Here is a new link, just added due to its excellent analysis of Texas jobs and unemployment. It’s called “Political Math.”

    Is Governor Perry perfect? Nope, no man is. But his record is a whole lot better, in his jurisdiction, than President Obama’s is in his. You would complain that maybe not every job created in Texas is the greatest job in the world, but that runs up against a very hard truth: even not the best job is better than no job at all.

    If President Obama’s record was a good one, y’all wouldn’t have to trash all of his opponents; he’d win re-election based on his actual job performance. But you (plural) are trashing all of his opponents, because you know that if the election is about President Obama and his record in office, he will lose.

  52. It’s amusing how our Kiwi Kommenter attacks Richard Fisher, President and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, when Mr Fisher says something he doesn’t like

    It’s amusing how Dana weasels out from dealing with a specific example of Fisher playing games with statistics.

    Oh well – once a weasel, always a weasel.

    Note that those figures are based on median income (a midpoint, as many above as below). Please explain: if Texas has been creating only minimum wage jobs, how is the Texas median income still $48,259?

    You’re citing a poster who doesn’t understand the difference between the median and the mean?

  53. Then, of course, there is Oklahoma, with it’s 5.3% unemployment rate. The combination of a conservative Republican state legislature and a moderate Democratic Governor — conservative on spending, more liberal on social issues — kept Oklahoma fiscally sound. Then, when a new Republican Governor, Mary Fallin, took office last January, and the Sooners were facing a $500 million deficit, the legislature and the new Governor cut spending, and balanced the state budget without raising taxes.

    The real secret here is that Texas and Oklahoma have been low-tax, low spending states for a good, long tiome now. If the Republicans at the federal level stick to their promises and slash spending, it’s going to be painful, no doubt about that. But if this had been being done all along, we’d have been in much better shape.

  54. No Dana, I think they should try and figure how to tax “someone” more, print more money, borrow more money and spend more of OUR money on the guys they favor. That’s how you run a government, screwing the working guys and screwining the guys that start businesses. Buntch of thieves. But then again, I made over 80 grand just betting against the two “p’s” Thanks guys! And thanks to you Pho, I’ll make more when I buy back in.. What do you think I should do? Please tell me you economic genius. ( Hell, I wish I could show this dope my year’s earnings just betting against him ). I’m happy, how are you Pho? Wait, you’re happy as long as America hurts, right? You piece of shit! The good news is I’ll make money either way. The bad news is I’d rather loose money than hurt America. Would you? I’d give up everything I own right now, to get rid of Obama, the leftists, the pinko piss ants that now run our country. Everything! What would you give up to make us right, Perry? I know Pho hates our country so he has no skin in this. Sad thing is, when you side with him, neither do you.

  55. But I must say it is “we” Republicans who hurt the economy. After all, all we want is money so we must ….not make money? The left keeps screwing the people and they keep selling the same old shit. I just don’t understand how they can get away with spending/taxing/borrowing/printing and no one realizes they are liars and phoneys, including themselves. Let’s see: they’ve done the same stupid shit for fifty years and now we are so deep in crap we can’t make an economic move. The answer: more of the same, but it must be even more! These people are idiots. How’s that Hope and Change workin’ out? This fuckin’ guy is a total idiot ( kinda like the two P’s ). Wait…. I can’t wait to read Pho’s answer. This should be good. Bet it’s Bush’s fault. Can’t be Obama is a socialist asshole! Keep doin’ it over and over you crazy idiots. The good news is I always bet against you. This could be a “banner” year. Thanks Pho and thanks Perry. Hell, 20 more units! How are you two doin’? It’s funny, the more you commies try, the more we capitalists make money. BTW, June waves “thanks. She knows commies. She lived next to them. I didn’t. I just shot them. And enjoyed every minute.

  56. Hoagie, you’re going to make the commie “2 P’s in a Pod” and the commies at Iowa Lib(er)al and the commies at Delaware Lie-beral all whiny and passive-AGGRESSIVE with your hatred of commie-dom. I mean, Perry’s gonna bust a gasket tinkling all over himself because you hate his commiedom and his lying over at his Gap-building site (that doesn’t even get 10 hits a day). And the professional book-putter-backer megalomaniac is gonna go froot loops laughing uncontrollably at his own imbecility as he always, always, always does at practically the only Conservative site he has left after the rest rightfully banned his pinko troll southern face.

  57. I’d like to thank Voltaire for giving the perfect quote re Hoagie and the perpetually baffled JH.

  58. And the devout Socialist barks on cue. Idiot Socialist doesn’t even realize Socialism has been proven time immemorial to be an abject failure every time it has been implemented. And at a cost of well over 100 million innocent lives murdered for its absolutely evil cause.

  59. Here’s the dealio: If every socialist on Earth were executed today, the world would be a very much healthier place to live, as socialism would be vanquished for at least half a generation and the world would be able to recover and reverse a large portion of the damage the absolutely evil that is socialism caused.

    But the difference between Conservatives and Socialists is very stark. Socialists, like Obama’s best friend, the unrepentant terrorist Bill Ayers, are very willing and able to murder hundreds of millions of innocent people for their cause, just as the Weather Underground, which Obama’s BFF, the unrepentant terrorist Bill Ayers and his wife Bernadine Dorhn were a major part of, declared as much as one quarter of the US Population (over 80 million souls by today’s numbers) would have to be liquidated to advance their evil socialist agenda. Unlike the socialists, which the 2 P’s in a Pod and the Iowa Lie-berals are most definitely and without question, Conservatives reject murder as a tool to advance a governing philosophy.

  60. Yeah, waiting for the abject liar and professional book putter backer from New Zealand to lie about what I said and for the lower-than-foot-corn socialist sycophant Perry to lie and hug each other for their respective lies regarding what I just wrote.

  61. “How’s that Hope and Change workin’ out? This fuckin’ guy is a total idiot ( kinda like the two P’s ).”

    Hoagie-John, there is no discussion can be had when you talk like this.

    Seems that this nastiness has become characteristic of many on the American Right, unfortunately. There are many examples right here on this blog.

    Obama is a pragmatic centrist, always searching for solutions, always willing to compromise in order to find them. One can hardly find such an attitude by the two political extremes in our country, thus the hope is that moderates of both parties, and independents, support a pragmatic, centrist approach to governing such that we will take appropriate actions to get our economy back on track.

    I think Fareed Zakaria expressed it well about Obama in his recent piece in Time Magazine:

    “Obama’s temperament was eloquently expressed by the late Bart Giamatti, a former president of Yale and former baseball commissioner, when he urged students not to fall prey to ideology from the right or left and to celebrate the democratic process that balances the two extremes. “My middle view is the view of the centrist,” he said, before quoting law professor Alexander Bickel, “who would … fix ‘our eyes on that middle distance, where values are provisionally held, are tested, and evolve within the legal order derived … from the morality of consent.’ To set one’s course by such a centrist view is to leave oneself open to the charges, hurled by the completely faithful of some extreme, of being relativistic, opportunistically flexible, secular, passive, passionless … Be of good cheer … To act according to an open and principled pragmatism, to believe in the power of process, is in fact to work for the good.” “

    Extremists on the left or on the right will never be able to relate to the sentiments of pragmatic centrists, since they are overwhelmed by their own absolutist ideologies. Is this true for you, Hoagie-John? Is it true for you, Dana?

  62. “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!” — Barry Goldwater

    What is “moderation” but the taking of half-steps, so as not to offend anyone, rather than actually trying to solve the problem? You have, yourself, criticized President Obama for pushing what you saw as a stimulus program only a third or half as big as it should have been, claiming (incorrectly) that such was forced upon him by us evil Republicans.

    You wrote:

    Hoagie-John, there is no discussion can be had when you talk like this.

    Seems that this nastiness has become characteristic of many on the American Right, unfortunately. There are many examples right here on this blog.

    And this from the gentleman who referred to all of us as “traitors” just a little more than an hour earlier. :)

  63. What the hell is a pragmatic centrist, Perry? Is that one who after decades off fiscal and governmental policy of tax/spend/print and borrow has decided that now since our unemployment is 9.1%, our credit rating is declining, our energy policy is nil, our housing market collapsed, our business sector plagued by uncertainty we should now tax/spend/print and borrow some more? That’s insanity. There’s nothing either pragmatic nor centrist about continuing to do the same thing over and over waiting for a different outcome. That’s just stupid. Perhaps it’s time to step back and say maybe, just maybe those lousy free market bastards have a point. Perhaps it’s time to step back and look at President (?) Obama and ask, what has he really done? And perhaps you may consider that had he done nothing but voice a belief in our system we may just be better off today. Wait till you see what this idiot is about to do to the coal industry. Talk about stupid. In the dictionary under the word is his picture.

    And when it comes to “absolutist ideologies” you’re number one on the hit parade. You’re so stuck on yours you can’t even see that a nobody, from nowhere, who has never accomplished anything is pointing out nation toward a socialist dung heap. But that’s okay. All we need is to borrow just one more trillion for “stimulus”, print two more trillion in quantative easing, tax a few millionaires and billionaires a bit more and spend like there’s no tomorrow and everything will be just dandy. Considering any other option is, to you, not an option. There’s nothing centrist nor pragmatic about that.

  64. BTW, Perry. If there are any traitors among us I would suggest they are the ones who want to “fundamentally transform” America. I believe we were fundamentally good to begin with. We didn’t need transformation, we needed leadership and statesmanship. What we got was a looser politician.

  65. “And this from the gentleman who referred to all of us as “traitors” just a little more than an hour earlier. :)

    I explained my position very carefully, in detail, and I stand by it. Here is what I said:

    “No, Dana, my remark was not prompted by differences in policy or even ideology; rather, it was prompted by the refusal of you right wing minority extremists to permit our government to function. Another example was the debt ceiling hostage crisis perpetrated by you extremists. In my opinion, those are acts of treason, because they are acts which are disruptive of the basic deliberative functions of our working government. You people have shown a propensity to shut the government down when certain issues are not being decided in accordance with your wishes. These are extreme actions, Dana, thus are inappropriate to having a functioning, effective government. Are we no longer interested in operating according to the principles of democracy?”

    You have not rebutted that statement; instead you make an issue over my use of the word treason. (Incidentally, I recall the radical right using that term for those who opposed the Iraq War. Did you agree with that?)

    Our system of government is meant to have opposing views aired, and in the end compromise to generate progress on our problems. Instead, you folks have behaved the opposite, refusing to compromise, freezing the actions of the Congress, and permitting wealth to permeate our government and control its processes. This sure smacks of treason to me! One could argue that that is an inappropriate choice of words; perhaps, but you folks certainly are not behaving in a manner that permits the government to function in the usual manner of majority rule and compromise. What word would you choose to use to characterize this anti-American behavior?

    The problem is that you folks have slid so far to the right, that a centrist like myself appears to you as a “commie”, a “socialist”, words repeated by you folks time and time again.

  66. ““I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!” — Barry Goldwater”

    Right, this is the statement of an absolutist, a catch-phrase that is subject to debate regarding its implementation, depending on the issue or event being contemplated. For example, where was the god-speed in pursuing the for granting the power of the vote to all Americans? These were Conservatives who obstructed for centuries. Did Goldwater address this behavior? And oh, btw, I note that the same Conservatives are doing all they can to suppress the votes of blacks and Hispanics. The hypocrisy of the Right, it never ends!

  67. And, let’s see, who was it who referred to conservatives and Republicans as “unpatriotic,” as “stupid,” as “insan(e),” as “worse than useless,” as “extremists,” and “fascist,” but it’s us wicked right-wingers who are uncivil. :)

    As for Congress cooperating with the President, you even complained about that . . . when you didn’t like the policies of the President.

    Yes, Dana, I think that is basically where you extremists are politically. What sort of a political movement is it that would make our government dysfunctional in order to defeat a standing President? Party over country – What sort of patriotism is this, I ask?

  68. (Incidentally, I recall the radical right using that term for those who opposed the Iraq War.)

    Citation please!

    And oh, btw, I note that the same Conservatives are doing all they can to suppress the votes of blacks and Hispanics.

    Citation please! (And you can exclude the common sense voter ID measures, moron.)

    The problem is that you folks have slid so far to the right, that a centrist like myself

    Centrist? CENTRIST???? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  69. Perry wrote:

    You have not rebutted that statement; instead you make an issue over my use of the word treason. (Incidentally, I recall the radical right using that term for those who opposed the Iraq War. Did you agree with that?)

    I never called them traitors, though it’s arguable that, in opposing the war at a time when our troops were overseas, engaged in combat with the enemy, domestic opposition to the war came a lot closer to giving aid and comfort to the enemy than any of the domestic political disputes we have going on.

    Our system of government is meant to have opposing views aired, and in the end compromise to generate progress on our problems. Instead, you folks have behaved the opposite, refusing to compromise, freezing the actions of the Congress, and permitting wealth to permeate our government and control its processes. This sure smacks of treason to me! One could argue that that is an inappropriate choice of words; perhaps, but you folks certainly are not behaving in a manner that permits the government to function in the usual manner of majority rule and compromise. What word would you choose to use to characterize this anti-American behavior?

    How is it that “Our system of government is meant to have opposing views aired,” yet when people actually express those views opposed to what you believe, they are “unpatriotic,” “stupid,” “insan(e),” “worse than useless,” “extremists,” “traitors,” “anti-American” and “fascists?”

    What word would I use to describe the actions of the Republicans? How about tenacious, how about principled, how about determined, how about committed, and, in the end, how about victorious? The GOP said that there were things we believed were right and things that we believed were wrong, and we’ve done a really impressive job in fighting for the things in which we believe, despite being in a minority position.

    The problem is that you folks have slid so far to the right, that a centrist like myself appears to you as a “commie”, a “socialist”, words repeated by you folks time and time again.

    [Guffaws!] “A centrist like (yourself)?” T’wasn’t so long ago that you described yourself as an “Independent Progressive.” Of course, the “Independent” part seems unlikely; aren’t you a registered Democrat? Don’t you vote almost exclusively for Democrats? David Anderson once referred to you as “our Democrat on the ground” for reporting on a special election candidate selection.

  70. The posyuring buffoon JH: Yeah, waiting for the abject liar and professional book putter backer from New Zealand to lie about what I said and for the lower-than-foot-corn socialist sycophant Perry to lie and hug each other for their respective lies regarding what I just wrote.

    Hoagie: And when it comes to “absolutist ideologies” you’re number one on the hit parade. You’re so stuck on yours you can’t even see that a nobody, from nowhere, who has never accomplished anything is pointing out nation toward a socialist dung heap. But that’s okay. All we need is to borrow just one more trillion for “stimulus”, print two more trillion in quantative easing, tax a few millionaires and billionaires a bit more and spend like there’s no tomorrow and everything will be just dandy. Considering any other option is, to you, not an option. There’s nothing centrist nor pragmatic about that.

    “J’ai toujours fait une prière à Dieu, qui est fort courte. La voici: Mon Dieu, rendez nos ennemis bien ridicules! Dieu m’a exaucé.”
    - Voltaire, 1767.

  71. “How is it that “Our system of government is meant to have opposing views aired,” yet when people actually express those views opposed to what you believe, they are “unpatriotic,” “stupid,” “insan(e),” “worse than useless,” “extremists,” “traitors,” “anti-American” and “fascists?”

    What word would I use to describe the actions of the Republicans? How about tenacious, how about principled, how about determined, how about committed, and, in the end, how about victorious? The GOP said that there were things we believed were right and things that we believed were wrong, and we’ve done a really impressive job in fighting for the things in which we believe, despite being in a minority position. “

    Dana, you have the descriptors confused, as most of those you used fit the Dems, who have tried to seek common ground so this nation can move forward on our problems. I firmly believe that historians will classify your party as extremists who were principally responsible for the down slide of our nation. I understand that you don’t see this and will never agree, because you are one of the extremists, blinded by your absolutist outlook, and unwilling to acknowledge the cost of the policies passed on from you Repubs to Obama. I’ve shown you the chart numerous times, yet you have not owned up to those facts!

    You forgot to include the word unbending in your self-description, to which you would consider yourself being the principled one, as if none of the rest of us were principled at all. That right there is the heart of your problem, Dana! That is the absolutism that is doing you in, and the like-minded doing our nation in as well.

    “I always made one prayer to God, a very short one. Here it is: “O Lord, make our enemies quite ridiculous!” God granted it.” Voltaire, 1767

    ‘Tis as true today as it was in 1767, when describing our current Repub party – quite ridiculous (and “unpatriotic,” “stupid,” “insan(e),” “worse than useless,” “extremists,” “traitors,” “anti-American”.) And btw, I have yet to call any of you fascists, although I can definitely see the seeds of same germinating. Fascism is the natural outcome for those who think in absolutist terms and find a way to take over a government.

  72. “I never called them traitors, though it’s arguable that, in opposing the war at a time when our troops were overseas, engaged in combat with the enemy, domestic opposition to the war came a lot closer to giving aid and comfort to the enemy than any of the domestic political disputes we have going on.”

    This, coming from a person who considers himself a champion of an absolutist interpretation of the First Amendment. Dana, an airing of the opposition to any policy, war included, is a strength of ours! And you object to this?

  73. The difference is, Perry, that I’m not the one who (falsely) claims to be a “centrist,” or to be seeking “compromise.” I’m the one who believes that the proper goal is victory, not compromise.

    Of course, you believe in exactly the same thing; it’s just that I am willing to admit it.

  74. Did you actually quote “Voltaire, 1767″? You do realize it’s 2011, don’t you? Please tell me what a French faggot from 1767 could possibly contribute to this conversation. Tell me, I gotta know, you moron. Or perhaps you’re of the same persausion and the same philosophy? Say it ain’t so!

    Let’s see: for the last two and a half years you’ve been wrong on every economic point you’ve made. So now you use Voltaire as a default? Every time you post here I make money. Thank you again. BTW, every time Perry says “Iagree with piatore” he does NOT make money. You two are the quintessential ass holes. God (sorry you don’t believe in Him) you’re idiots. Between the two of you I can’t decide which is the dumbest. But it is amusing to watch you both try and argue for more leftist bull shit.

    Keep doing the same thing…..perhaps the outcome will change. Insanity!

  75. Let’s see what happens this week. I’m puttin’ my money in gold, health care (thank you Obama) and China. I could be wrong, but at least I DO IT! I don’t pontificate about shit I don’t understand and I don’t quote Voltaire. And I’m not a librarian or a school teacher who “thinks” he knows something about economics. I’m an economist, who will say I don’t know economics cause no one can ever be sure in a free market. That’s what I love about both Pho and Krugman….they’re both EXPERTS! Yet neither are often correct and neither have a grasp on the relationship between economics and the way people act. That’s cause neither have ever run a business (and that’s the HEART of economics).

    I really can’t figure out why your politics always makes you two clowns loosers but I’m tryin’. Sooner or later at least one of you ( if with a tad of common sense) should say : Wait! maybe we’re wrong”. But no, you two nuts just keep on pushin’ the age old bull that makes free men ….well not free. And a great economy…well sucky. I’d rather see Dana Pico President in 2012 than Obama. He’d be a better, more thoughtful and way, way less bought by unions and all the other crappy organizations than Obama. But I’d bet the Two-P’s would hate Dana being President even though they both know he’s honest. Hell, can’t have an honest man when you can have a leftist.

    So tell me Two-P’s, would you vote for Dana?

  76. Oh, and Hoagie’s last rant has been bookmarked for reasons that should become evident soon…

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