President Obama unites all factions in Lebanon

From the New York Post:


More hated than Dubya?


Last Updated: 3:09 AM, July 16, 2011

A recent Zogby poll asked Arabs their view of President Obama and the United States, and guess what? They’re not crazy about either one.

America’s approval in the Arab world has plummeted in the past two years. Just 5 percent of Egyptians view the US favorably, down from 30 percent in 2009.

“In most countries, they are lower than at the end of the Bush administration, and lower than Iran’s favorable ratings,” wrote pollster James Zogby.

More at the link. But the money line was:

A stunning 99 percent of Lebanese think he’s a failure — which means the warring Muslims, Christians and other ethnic groups there have finally found something they agree on.

Maybe, just maybe, what this really means is that it really doesn’t matter what the United States does, the Third Worlders are always going to hate us. Maybe, just maybe, it shows that it’s wholly useless to try to adjust our policies to try to get other nations to like us.

We liberated the people of Iraq and Afghanistan; they hate us. We abandoned Hosni Mubarak — albeit slowly — when the Egyptian people started to rise up against him; they hate us. We spent vast amounts of treasure to help the Libyans struggling to throw off the yoke of Muammar al-Qaddafi; they hate us. We undercut our only real ally there, Israel, by saying that any peace settlement has to go back to the old “Green Line.”; they hate us. We helped save the Muslim Bosnians from the Orthodox Christian Serbs; they still hate us. Hell, President Obama even made obeisance bowed to Saudi royalty, and they still hate us. We poured money into the largest Muslim country in the world, Indonesia, following the tsunami, all for humanitarian purposes, and they hate us.

So, why don’t we just cut the crap, and stop trying to please other people, and set our foreign policy to achieve our self-interested objectives?

58 Comments

  1. Let’s face it, the globe is in a turmoil, so virtually no leader is “liked”.

    We have the US initiated global Great Recession; we have revolutions occurring throughout the Middle East; we have a financial crisis in Europe, a near crisis in the US; we have people starving in Africa; and, we are in the midst of the most violent climate and seismic outbursts in memory!

    Therefore, though I know well you and the NYP would love to look at this as an Obama phenomenon, an honest overview would dictate otherwise! It would not matter who the US President were, in fact, if we had McCain/Palin instead, I believe the global reaction to the US would be far, far worse!

    PS: I find it both interesting and noteworthy that you, Dana, have not chosen to address one of the two most noteworthy current events: The meltdown of the Murdoch empire. Could it be their major connection to the beloved WSJ and FNN, both of which they manage? I think so! And btw, the other noteworthy event is the debt ceiling standoff, with the Right attempting to hold the Dems and the globe hostage. But that’s politics for ya on CSPT!!! Where’s the common sense part???

  2. And btw, the other noteworthy event is the debt ceiling standoff, with the Right attempting to hold the Dems and the globe hostage

    Please explain this noteworthy statement Perry:

    “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”…..Senator Barack Obama

    Note: In 2006, not only did Obama vote no on raising the debt limit, but EVERY SENATE DEMOCRAT ALSO VOTED NO! Who were the “hostage-takers” then Perry?

  3. Perry wrote:

    It would not matter who the US President were, in fact, if we had McCain/Palin instead, I believe the global reaction to the US would be far, far worse!

    When you have a 99% disapproval rating in Lebanon, there ain’t much worse you can get! If 95% of the Egyptians think you’re rotten, it really doesn’t matter if you lose that last 5%.

    As for the hacking scandal in the UK, it’s overblown and really meaningless. Is anyone really surprised that a tabloid newspaper would pull stuff like that to get more information? Note that no one is saying that various Murdock sources got the news wrong, but people are just combitching about how they got their information.

    The Wall Street Journal and Fox News will survive just fine. And here’s your prediction, which you can write up on BtG if you wish: come January, as the nomination races are heating up, six months from now, Fox News will still be the ratings leader.

  4. “Note: In 2006, not only did Obama vote no on raising the debt limit, but EVERY SENATE DEMOCRAT ALSO VOTED NO! Who were the “hostage-takers” then Perry?”

    There was no holding hostage in that vote, Rovin. It was to make a statement. You need to remember the context: We were in the midst of two seemingly never ending wars which were irresponsibly being funded off-budget (as well as Medicare Part D). Moreover, the DoD budget had been nearly doubled during Bush, to that point in his reign. Moreover, the Repubs were in power in both the Senate and House, so they could raise the debt ceiling at will. So Rovin, you are throwing out a talking point without any mention or understanding of the context.

    If you really want to limit spending, you need to change the rules of the game, in particular you need systemic changes that make it considerably harder for politicians to spend. Holding the debt ceiling hostage, which represents debt already incurred, serves no useful purpose except to further an attempt by a minority to force their radical “cut spending/no new taxes” agenda against the American Middle Class. Let’s be honest about this, Rovin, for a change!!!

    PS: And yes, I agree with Obama’s statement then, made in the “making war context” I just finished discussing. We demonstrate ourselves to be a war hawk nation; if we change that, we will do the globe well, and we will simultaneously be able to reduce our debt. Have you thought about that, Rovin?

  5. “As for the hacking scandal in the UK, it’s overblown and really meaningless.”

    Hardly, Dana, and you know it! You are just posturing while throwing principles aside to protect your religion, er ideology. ‘Tis part of the culture, I understand that very well indeed.

    What is it now, two top executives canned, three top cops canned, a top guy hired by the UK Conservative leader/Prime Minister, close relationships between said Conservative leader/Prime Minister and the Brooks, and you call that overblown?

    But I must say, your are in tune with the hilarious WSJ editorial a couple of days ago, to wit:

    “We also trust that readers can see through the commercial and ideological motives of our competitor-critics. The Schadenfreude is so thick you can’t cut it with a chainsaw. Especially redolent are lectures about journalistic standards from publications that give Julian Assange and WikiLeaks their moral imprimatur. They want their readers to believe, based on no evidence, that the tabloid excesses of one publication somehow tarnish thousands of other News Corp. journalists across the world.”

    Since corruption at the top trickles down, it is just a matter of time before we discover similar traits operative at FNN and the WSJ editorial page. In fact, we’ve already seen them; one would have to be blind (or right-wing ideologues) not to be well aware of the corrupt so-called journalism practiced by these two entities, especially FNN. Regarding your prediction that they will survive, you may be correct, unfortunately, which speaks volumes about the unprincipled far right in our current political spectrum. And yes, I know, they think they are the principled ones. Let us just review their policies and the impact they have already made, wrt the American Middle Class! I say, and have said repeatedly on here, that their/your principles don’t pass muster, either ethically or strategically or politically, because they represent the power of a greedy, corrupt, power-seeking wealthy elite!

  6. “There was no holding hostage in that vote, Rovin. It was to make a statement.”

    You gotta love it. If the Democrats do it, it’s a statement! If the Republicans do it, it becomes a hostage situation. With thought paterns like that it’s no wonder you’re a leftist. You did read the quote from Obama at the time. right? It’s almost word for word what the Republicans are saying today. And this is several years later and the situation is several trillion worse. Worse, mind you, and not getting better.

    “You need to remember the context: We were in the midst of two seemingly never ending wars which were irresponsibly being funded off-budget (as well as Medicare Part D).”

    Okay, now here is todays context: We’re still in those two wars and Obama has added a third. And thanks to the Democrats everything is off budget since they haven’t produced one in two years. Plus, Obama has added a new never-ending entitlement called the Affordable healthcare Act. How are we gonna pay for this new boondoggle?

    You guys are all stuck on that crap that may have worked in the 50′s and 60′s but are driving us under in the 2000′s. We need a new paradigm but you all refuse to step back and change direction. You just want to keep spending till it all blows up. This is where that “micro/macro” thing comes into play. If I’m running a business and have done the same thing for 40 years and it worked for me, but now it no longer seems to be working, do I continue? Or do I modify what I’ve been doing, adapt, overcome? If you don’t understand the basics, you can’t fix the Big Picture.

  7. Hoagie-John, my point about context differences is that they are different, a fact that you have to swallow. I explained my opinion, all you said is that it is worse now. No, it is not worse, it is different.

    My question for you is, when are you Repubs going to come up with a solution which is operable? Putting all the burden on the already over-burdened American middle is not an operable solution, because this will reduce demand for goods and services, thus slow GDP growth, slow job growth, thus put us on an ever increasing spiral downward.

    I understand that you don’t give a damn, because you are moving your money into safe havens offshore, and planning to open more businesses in South Korea employing Koreans, and maybe even move there as well. I believe there is plenty of opportunity in your business field right here in America, but you just make excuses about regulations, etc. We have restaurants opening here in the Lewes, Rehoboth, Bethany Beach areas all the time, so please don’t tell me there is no opportunity here. That’s BS, and you know it!

    Now on the behavior of your party, let me give you a piece referring to statements made by Conservative pundit David Brooks:

    “As Congress struggles to reach a deal to raise the debt ceiling, David Brooks blasts Republicans for refusing to accept a favorable deal that would have ensured trillions of dollars in spending cuts as well as changes to entitlement programs, calling it a “missed opportunity.”

    Earlier this month, Brooks wrote in his New York Times column that the deal Democrats have put on the table is “the mother of no-brainers” and that the GOP “may no longer be a normal party” because it has put its anti-tax ideology ahead of practical governing.

    Today, Brooks follows up by naming names.

    He calls out the “Beltway Bandits,” particularly Grover Norquist, the head of Americans for Tax Reform, who Brooks calls “the Zelig of Republican catastrophe.”

    Also to blame for the current impasse are talk radio jocks — “Big Government blowhards” — who get ratings by firing up their listeners with partisan rhetoric; “show horses” such as Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann who “produce tweets, not laws”; and “permanent campaigners” in Congress who care more about getting re-elected than they do about governing.

    These groups “do not believe in seizing opportunities to make steady, messy progress toward conservative goals,” Brooks writes. “They believe that politics is a cataclysmic struggle.”"

    The overall point, Hoagie-John, is that it is your party which has changed, having moved so far right, having become so intransigent and obfuscatory, that we now have the most dysfunctional government in my lifetime, which is about 20 years longer than yours. Brooks is pointing out that your party turned down a debt reduction proposal which would broadly attack this problem, but since your people have signed a stupid no-tax increase pledge with Grover Norquist (Who the hell is Grover Norquist??), that you have taken revenue increases off of the table, so that the debt reduction is 100% on the backs of the American middle and poor.

    Hoagie-John, please defend the position of your party!

    PS: And btw, the reason, in my opinion, that we don’t have a budget, (which Bush did have), is because of the record breaking filibuster threat in the US Senate. So all we have to go on is the radical, non-starter Ryan budget. When is your party going to take our economy down-fall seriously and come up with serious solutions working with the Dems. So far, you have refused any compromise whatsoever, because your primary goal is to keep Obama to one term. If you don’t believe me, ask Dana, then ask Senate Majority leader McConnell. Thus, your party, among other problems, is unpatriotic! Am I wrong, Hoagie-John? You tell me!

  8. “One thing BO, he has united the WORLD ………….. against us.”

    I don’t agree at all, of course, Yorkshire.

    As I pointed out before, much of the world is in upheaval due to man-made and natural calamities (wars, revolution, severe climate change, and seismic events), so everyone is mad at everyone else. If you don’t believe that, you have either not been paying attention, or you are parroting the right wing ideologues who are yelling in your ears, or both.

  9. Pingback: American Working Class Being Abused! | Bridging the Gap

  10. Maybe, just maybe, what this really means is that it really doesn’t matter what the United States does, the Third Worlders are always going to hate us.

    Or it means that your blinkered American jingoiist perspective of US actions isn’t shared by the people who actually have to live with them, and they have legitimate reaons for feeling the way they do.

  11. We liberated the people of Iraq and Afghanistan; they hate us. We abandoned Hosni Mubarak — albeit slowly — when the Egyptian people started to rise up against him; they hate us. We spent vast amounts of treasure to help the Libyans struggling to throw off the yoke of Muammar al-Qaddafi; they hate us. We undercut our only real ally there, Israel, by saying that any peace settlement has to go back to the old “Green Line.”; they hate us. We helped save the Muslim Bosnians from the Orthodox Christian Serbs; they still hate us. Hell, President Obama even made obeisance bowed to Saudi royalty, and they still hate us. We poured money into the largest Muslim country in the world, Indonesia, following the tsunami, all for humanitarian purposes, and they hate us.

    Alternatively:

    - You invaded and occupied Iraq and Afghanistan, installed regimes that torture their civilians to keep control, and continue to kill civilians willfully and randomly, which is why they hate you.

    - You supported dictators such as Mubarak for as long as you could, despite your mealy-mouthed waffle about ‘freedom” and “democracy”, showing America to be nothing but a hypocritical hegamon, which is why they hate you.

    - You’re bombing Libya, killing civilians, which is why they hate you.

    - You support Israel during blatant apartheid, oppression of the Palestinians, and stealing of other people’s land, which is why they hate you.

    - You support autocrats and dictators throughout the Middle East, like the Saudi royals, which is why they hate you.

    - And every time this gets mentioned, you contruct elaborate rationalisations to fool yourself (such as talking about “liberating” Iraq and Afghanistan) as if they have any meaning when the people who live in those countries can clearly see the results. You’re not fooling anyone, certainly (to the extent that they know anything of the opinion of American w1ngnut blowhards) the people of the Middle East.

    They hate you because of the reality of America’s actions, Dana, and whining that this doesn’t match the little fantasy you have in your noggin isn’t worth a penny.

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  12. wow, that’s a boatload of bullshit. Now that’s done, I have a tad of a thing. Don’t knpow if I want to do it, don’t know if i swhould, do know that the one thing I want ( the space) is available! It’s a killer, it’s gonna cot me dearly. Tell me !

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  13. Oh, BTW Pho, just so you nkow. I told you last yaeR ABOUT BUYING AND SELLING GOLD. AND HOW I SCREWED UP BY SELING LONG. Well, I bought back half my portfolioo in gold at $ 1425 and kicked it back two days ago at $1602. Not bad for an ignorant economist? Howed you do this week? Betcha I made more this week than you’ll make all year. But you’re the economic genius!

  14. So tell me Perry, Pho, Whistler, mike g., are you guys openining a new business this year? Are you (plural) hireing any body this year? Didn’t think so. Pussys. How about you put your money where your mouth is? Can’t be you’re waiting for Obama (the guyb who never did nothin) to do it for you? Maybe. Bunch of lazy a-holes. Do it yourself! Get your ass up and work. Dana does, York does, Hitch does, DMW does, Eric does, and I do. You are such ladies.

  15. Oh, BTW Pho, just so you nkow. I told you last yaeR ABOUT BUYING AND SELLING GOLD. AND HOW I SCREWED UP BY SELING LONG. Well, I bought back half my portfolioo in gold at $ 1425 and kicked it back two days ago at $1602. Not bad for an ignorant economist? Howed you do this week? Betcha I made more this week than you’ll make all year. But you’re the economic genius!

    I see the drugs are kicking in and Hoagie is reduced to his usual ranting.

    Betcha I made more this week than you’ll make all year.

    Apart from the teeny tiny problem that you had to sit on that long sell for a year, yes? That would mean that this week was just the payoff, and you made 12% in that year on your gold position, which is nice for you.

    But keep plowing half your portfolio into gold – just like everyone and their kid brother is advising people to do…

  16. Not bad for an ignorant economist?

    So tell us, geeeeenius, what are the premises of MMT, and from which part of microeconomics does it come from?

  17. “So tell me Perry, Pho, Whistler, mike g., are you guys openining a new business this year? Are you (plural) hireing any body this year? Didn’t think so. Pussys. How about you put your money where your mouth is? Can’t be you’re waiting for Obama (the guyb who never did nothin) to do it for you? Maybe. Bunch of lazy a-holes. Do it yourself! Get your ass up and work. Dana does, York does, Hitch does, DMW does, Eric does, and I do. You are such ladies.”

    Hoagie-John, your arrogance is appalling, intolerant, and ugly. Get a hold of yourself!

  18. Wow, Perry. I’m arrogant, appalling, intolerant and ugly? If that’s what it takes to separate me from the whining, whimpy little fascists you lefties have become I’ll accept it. You bunch of loosers. I’ve tried to explain to you that if you don’t face the future with a new set of ideas you guys will surely destroy our nation. But no, instead you’d rather snipe at me. The old ideas are no longer working and you would rather stay set in your chosen rut than admit we need to seek new solutions. Hell, I don’t care any more. After all as Pho said I made a meazely 12% on my gold trade. I was pretty happy with that in todays market but obviously that’s not good to Pho. BTW, if you think I’m getting sucked into any lengthly economic argument with Pho, you’re crazy. MMT, GDP, PISS, will never occur between he and I. First off, when I do battle I choose the ground, not the enemy. Secondly, arguing economics with a librarian is like having a battle of wits with a defenseless man. But I must give him credit. For a man who knows as much about economics as I know about transplanting a brain he is tenacious.

  19. “Wow, Perry. I’m arrogant, appalling, intolerant and ugly? “

    I was referring to your statement which I quoted. Now you have continued on the same theme, instead of debating/discussing, attacking. What point are you trying to make, Hoagie-John?

    Back on the topic, we are a country on a downhill slide; of that I think we can all agree. Having a dysfunctional government due to right-wing intransigence and due to the corruption of our government by both parties is the cause. Moreover, watching the Murdoch meltdown in the UK, and the conditions that produced a Murdoch to begin with, causes me to tie that in with similar corruption patterns here in our own country. We cannot go on like this!

    Instead of tearing down your political opposition, Hoagie-John, how about we find ways that we can work together to make things better?

  20. Now you have continued on the same theme, instead of debating/discussing, attacking. What point are you trying to make, Hoagie-John?

    Perry, STFU. How many times have you used this tired f***ing line … WHEN YOU DO THIS ALL THE TIME YOURSELF?

    Instead of tearing down your political opposition, Hoagie-John, how about we find ways that we can work together to make things better?

    F*** off. You don’t mean this whatsoever. “Finding ways to work together” means “Doing what I want to do.” It always does. Your blog’s title is a phony, and you’re a phony. Either Alzheimers is setting in or you’re genuinely a lunatic.

  21. Perry, in your post of 7/19, 11:41 you, as a Democrat, are hammering me as a Republican. Okay, that’s fair. But I was talking common sense economic thought (hey! good name for a blog), not party politics. I do understand that as a Democrat, using all the old tried and true class warfare crap, and having spent our nation into oblivion, you’re kinda out of new ideas and surely out of options. Keep the blinkers on a plough forward into debt and disaster, please don’t try and figure out a new way to succeed. Just keep bitching about how the big bad Republicans who have only the house in their control are killing everybody.

    And BTW, 50% of Americans don’t pay any federal income tax (and some of those get “money back” they haven’t paid in). When we all have a horse in the race then I’ll worry about your opine about the “middle and poor”. They ain’t part of the solution Perry, they are the problem. Everyone should pay income tax, not just you, or me or any other target you Dems paint this week as the evil and greedy ones. I’m not going to be your Party’s punching bag or it’s bitch. I’ll put my money and my labor where it does the most good for me and my family. And I don’t give a rats ass about Rehoboth or Lewes. If a businessman thinks he has a market there, well, good for him, I hope he succeeds. But I too, have the right to pick the markets I desire to do business in whether you like it or not.

    You know Perry, I’m still fighting with the local inspectors about the Italian market in Bryn Athyn. These phuckers would rather see the place empty than admit their “regulations” are BS. And I’d rather see it empty than sink $250-350 grand into something where I not only need to compete in the market but have to do battle with bureaucrats 24/7. The building is in great shape yet I will need to renovate the entire inside to my specs. That costs money, honey. Now I still happen to have some of my old equipment in storage which I can use but I still need to buy plenty of new equipment to create the business and atmosphere I imagine. It’s got to be top-notch or I won’t do it. All of this takes money, which I’m willing to invest. However, if these clucks are this bad now, in the planning stage, imagine how pissy they’ll be when I start building and renovating. June says I’m too old for this shit. Perhaps she’s right.

    Matter of fact, right now I’m on my way to meet the interior guy at the location at 11:30. He’s going to give me an estimate on building out the interior and adding two new rest rooms. I also want to add some French drains which he dosen’t know about yet. Course all of this is pending approval to remove the wall (partition) between the two stores. If they won’t let me do that it’s a deal breaker.

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  22. As a parting shot I’d like to offer Perry the ability for us to work together. Meet me with a check for $175 grand and we can do so. A clean 50/50 split. Are you in? Hell, I was gonna call it “Hoagie J’s Italian Market” (cause everybody around here knows me so I’ll capitalize on that). But we could change it to “Perry & Hoagies” (kinda like Chickies & Petes” or Dave & Busters”.) Catchy, no? We could have a winner here buddy!

  23. One last thing before I shoot outta here. I can buy a 50lb. wheel of the finest aged Italian asiago cheese for around $250. We can sell it for $7.99 a pound and bury the competition! Gotch thinkin’ now don’t I?

  24. Hube, there is no discussing anything with the likes of you and Hitchcock when you are in a depressive state of mind, as with the attitude you just expressed, and Hitchcock agreed.

    We have an immediate, major problem facing us right now, and that is the approaching debt ceiling decision. Finally, we see the two sides working together for a solution, which is the only way we can ever get viable solutions. Everyone must understand how serious the consequences would be if we default on the debts that we have already created, in effect, not paying all our bills.

    And the ultimate solution has to be comprehensive in terms of spending and revenue, with the burden shared among all Americans.

    The most important outcome of all is job creation, because the viability of our nation depends upon it. Moreover, the continued abuse of our working middle and poor has to stop, as these folks need to receive a share of the pie which they have helped produce.

    These are the issues we need to be discussing and debating, [and trying to "bridge the gap"!]

  25. Well Hoagie-John, best wishes on working out the problems with the regulators. I sincerely wish you success in your undertaking! It sounds like a great addition to the area, including the jobs you would be creating.

    “And BTW, 50% of Americans don’t pay any federal income tax (and some of those get “money back” they haven’t paid in). When we all have a horse in the race then I’ll worry about your opine about the “middle and poor”. They ain’t part of the solution Perry, they are the problem. Everyone should pay income tax, not just you, or me or any other target you Dems paint this week as the evil and greedy ones. “

    We’ve discussed this before on here. On taxes, one needs to look at the total tax picture and the impact on the people who are taxed. This means including such as property tax, sales tax, ss tax, medicare tax, telephone taxes, the whole bit. For example, sales tax has a major impact on those making low wages. Moreover, ss tax and medicare tax is 8-9% of gross. Property tax, which renters pay also indirectly, can be a huge tax burden. So to separate out income tax, saying that 50% don’t pay any, is not helpful in understanding the tax burdens on the middle and poor.

  26. “As a parting shot I’d like to offer Perry the ability for us to work together. Meet me with a check for $175 grand and we can do so. A clean 50/50 split. Are you in? Hell, I was gonna call it “Hoagie J’s Italian Market” (cause everybody around here knows me so I’ll capitalize on that). But we could change it to “Perry & Hoagies” (kinda like Chickies & Petes” or Dave & Busters”.) Catchy, no? We could have a winner here buddy!”

    We actually had an Italian Market open in Lewes in February, and it seems to be doing great. It’s a combination market/deli, restaurant, and take-out. Their selection of cheeses is without compare in our area. The staff are dressed in white from head to foot, very professional looking. And the decor is black and white checkerboard ceramic tile on the wall in back of the counter/frig. If I were to consider your offer, I’d have you down here to see this place. You might want to come down anyway.

    Fifteen years ago, I’d be on the phone talking to you and coming up to see you from VA where we lived at that time. How about “HP Italian Market”? But seriously, John, like your wife says, and mine would as well, “I’m too old for that s**t!” Maybe Hube would go for it!!

  27. That’s exactly what I have in mind Perry. Youre local guy has it right. Go first class all the way and the ceramic tile is great for cleaning purposes. Rob (one of Five Guys Burghers & Fries) did that in all their stores and I’ve been doing it for years ever since an old Greek taught me how to clean like there’s no tomorrow. I’m glad to hear he’s doing well and hope he continues.

    I just got back and things aren’t as bad as I figured. My interior guy gave me an estimate for a new ceiling, 22 recessed lights, a hardwood-look pergo floor, tile walls in the food prep area and other wall treatments of $38,000. If I want that French drain system since the place is built on a slab they need to tear up a trench, lay new water pipe and sewage drains and fit stainless grates that’ll me another $8,000. I’ll think about it, although French drains makes sanitizing quick and easy so I’ll probibly go for it. I also am going to need a new electric service to handle my refrigeration etc. but that’s another story for another day when Barry the electrician shows up.

    All I’m waiting on before I sign a lease is the okay of the inspector to remove that damn wall. I need a clear span to show off the food and highlight the food prep area. I figure about 60 seats in the dining area. Not too big and not too small.
    how many seats does the guy in Lewes have Perry? It it more grocery or more deli/sandwhich? Fill me in I need all the help I can get here. BTW, can you recall how many slicers he has? I have two in storage but I think I’ll need at least four more.

    Now I’m off to have lunch at the Elbo Room with the owner Tim who just got back from a trip to Ireland. (go figure, an Irish drunk going to Ireland, whooda thunk?)

  28. MMT, GDP, PISS, will never occur between he and I.

    That’s what I thought – you know you’re bloosy ignorant in the area being discussed, and screaming “I’m rich and I don’t have to debate!” is a way of running away from showing that ignorance.

    Spanked again.

  29. And BTW, 50% of Americans don’t pay any federal income tax (and some of those get “money back” they haven’t paid in).

    Fox News.

  30. The Phoenician, unable to compete with John’s earning a 12% return, wrote:

    Not bad for an ignorant economist?

    So tell us, geeeeenius, what are the premises of MMT, and from which part of microeconomics does it come from?

    Does it matter if John has studied the latest economics texts, or whether he knows the various acronyms? He had demonstrated the ability to start successful businesses, he has reaped the rewards of such, and he has created jobs in the process. he has done exactly what Perry and President Obama and all of our friends on the left believe a capitalist should do, except, of course, for his unwillingness to pay higher taxes.

    You, on the other hand, are absolutely fantastic at telling us the paper theories, but you start no businesses, and you create no jobs.

    Some are talkers, and some are doers.

  31. Perry needs to learn Teh Google:

    We’ve discussed this before on here. On taxes, one needs to look at the total tax picture and the impact on the people who are taxed. This means including such as property tax, sales tax, ss tax, medicare tax, telephone taxes, the whole bit. For example, sales tax has a major impact on those making low wages. Moreover, ss tax and medicare tax is 8-9% of gross. Property tax, which renters pay also indirectly, can be a huge tax burden. So to separate out income tax, saying that 50% don’t pay any, is not helpful in understanding the tax burdens on the middle and poor.

    And the wealthy pay sales tax on their taxable items purchased, and the wealthy pay property taxes, and the wealthy pay Social Security and Medicare taxes. Of course, they only pay 4.2% for Social Security taxes, the same rate as the minimum wage employee, and 1.45% for medicare taxes, the same as everybody else. :) In 2012, the Social Security tax rate, employee’s share, rises back to 6.2%, and when that happens, the combined rate will return to the 7.65% rate it had been, and not the 8 to 9% of gross that Perry mentioned.

    If someone, wealthy or poor, is self-employed, he pays double, both the employee’s and employer’s portion.

    The high producers pay far more in taxes than the poor, simply because they make more money. But, for our friends on the left, even that isn’t good enough.

  32. As for me, there is a brand new parapet wall on a major bridge today because of the work that I, among others, did today. And I started work at 0130 this morning, and I’m tired.

  33. Does it matter if John has studied the latest economics texts, or whether he knows the various acronyms? He had demonstrated the ability to start successful businesses, he has reaped the rewards of such, and he has created jobs in the process.

    Yes, it does matter, because there is a difference between macro- and microeconomics. You betray your own ignorance by not realising this.

    It’s like me claiming to know all about being a best-selling author based on my librarianship experience, or you claiming to know all about architecture based on your ability to pour concrete.

    You, on the other hand, are absolutely fantastic at telling us the paper theories

    That’s right – because I bother to learn something and because I adjust my understanding based on what I learn. You and Hoagie just spout nonsense based on your ignorance and start screaming about irrelevancies to deflect criticism.

    Item – Hoagie has displayed a deep ignorance of modern macroeconomics. If he has a degree, I pity the institution that gave it to him.

    Item – whether or not he has started a business, run a marathon, painted art or cooks corden bleu is irrelevant to that ignorance.

    Item – the fact that you don’t get that yet shows your own ignorance.

    MMT isn’t just an acronym, Dana. It lays down some hard truths relevant to America’s situation – namely, that you cannot reduce private debt AND run a balanced public sector budget. But you need to pay down private sector debt to get out of this recession – to get people buying things rather than just paying interest to bankers. Therefore your teabagger screaming about reducing the deficit is actively dangerous to America.

    All your screaming about Hoagie starting up restaurants in Korea is worthless – it is simply a way for you to avoid facing up to that hard truth. W1ngnuts are great at running away from reality – but reality always catches up.

    (Part of me wants you to succeed – to have America run on teabagger policies. It will cripple you for at least a generation)

  34. BTW, speaking about reality, I understand that the US is going through a wide and record-breaking heat wave this summer.

    I assume this isn’t going to stop you from cracking jokes about climate change if it snows in winter…

  35. BTW, speaking about reality, I understand that the US is going through a wide and record-breaking heat wave this summer.

    If this is reality and you’re actually into learning things instead of just spouting dogma, then you’ll have to cite why and where it is “record-breaking,” especially since in certain parts of the country 2011 isn’t even a heat “blip.”

    And meanwhile, in France, temps are in between the 60s and 70s.

  36. “And the wealthy pay sales tax on their taxable items purchased, and the wealthy pay property taxes, and the wealthy pay Social Security and Medicare taxes.”

    Dana, you missed my point entirely. I am trying to address the impact of the taxes on our middle and poor. You Righties only want to talk about income taxes, pointing out that the lower 50% don’t pay any at all. Accepting that as true, though I’m not sure it is, it is meaningless to discuss only income taxes, as I have mentioned on here many times. If you add up all these taxes (ss, medicare, sales, property/rent, telephone, …, you are probably talking at least 20% of take home being paid in taxes, by people who are not far from twice the poverty level for a family of four ($40K). And worse now, fuel prices and food prices have been escalating and squeezing their budget even tighter. Moreover, how many of these people even have a job, are getting by on unemployment, or their unemployment has run out.

    If you are in the lower 50% in America, you are living like in a third world country, a real shame on us all!

  37. Perry:
    Dana, you missed my point entirely. I am trying to address the impact of the taxes on our middle and poor. You Righties only want to talk about income taxes, pointing out that the lower 50% don’t pay any at all. Accepting that as true, though I’m not sure it is, it is meaningless to discuss only income taxes, as I have mentioned on here many times.

    Not only do the lower half pay no income taxs, they are paid instead. My daughter in the lower 50% had withheld about $400 Fed Income Taxes. After I filled out her 1040 for PAYING $400 IN TAXES WITHHELD, SHE RECEIVED AN “OVERPAYMENT” REBATE REFUND OF $1400. Why would anyoneone in their right mind in a situation like this want someone in Congress turning off their gravytrain.

  38. Gosh, I dunno

    Meteorologists said the heat wave could last into August over much of the eastern United States.

    The cumulative effects in terms of lost lives, stress on the power grid and damage to roads and bridges could eclipse the effects of the deadly heat wave of 1995, which claimed hundreds of lives in Chicago alone, AccuWeather.com predicted.

    “When all is said and done, with the number of days of extreme heat and humidity of the current heat wave, it may be more significant and impact a larger area,” said AccuWeather’s Jim Andrews.

    …the news, maybe?

    But never mind. I’m sure it will snow somewhere in the US some time this winter, which will allow you w1ngnuts to jeer at Al Gore and assure yourselves that everything is perfectly normal…

  39. Yorkshire, is your daughter living in poverty? Is that $400 rebate a salvation for her? My guess is that she needs that $400 very badly, so that the rebate refund is a good thing for her.

  40. After I filled out her 1040 for PAYING $400 IN TAXES WITHHELD, SHE RECEIVED AN “OVERPAYMENT” REBATE REFUND OF $1400.

    Wow – so let’s see – if the marginal tax rate at the lower end is 10%, and she withheld $400, that would mean she made about $4,000 that year?

    Yeah, she sure seems to be living high on the hog. Or, you know, you’re not giving us all the information about taxes she paid that year.

  41. Pho, I am not going to argue economics with a socialist librarian. It’s pointless. I already know your position and frankly, I don’t care. You are what you are and that’s okay with me. I just wish in your little narcisstic world that you could make room for me to be me and others to be themselves without trying to force us to reflect you. For some reason you seem to think that you and only you know what is best for everyone and if we all don’t agree to the “Pho Theory” we are ignorant dolts. I’ve been around guys like you all my life. Underachievers who constantly bitch about over achievers and how rotten the world is. For some crazy-assed reason you seem to believe that if you’ve read a book or an article on a subject you are an expert on that subject. You have never been, are not now, and never will be an expert on economics. Reading a few books or articles will not make you one. Throwing out a few economic terms will not make you one. You are a librarian and apparently very good at your job or you wouldn’t be getting paid for it. But you are not an economist, climate expert, medical czar, businessman, finance guru or anything else. Your opinions are just that, opinions. They are not the Word of God, just opinions. They have the same value as mine, Dana’s, York’s, Hitches, or Perry’s. Your opinions are not the law, just opinions. You are entitled to have them as we are also entitled to have ours. However, when you attempt to speak with unquestionable authority from Mount Olympus about economics, climate, medicine, business or finance you are out of your depth.

  42. Pho, I am not going to argue economics with a socialist librarian.

    Because every time you do, I cite facts and you rant, and consequently you look like a fool.

    I just wish in your little narcisstic world that you could make room for me to be me and others to be themselves without trying to force us to reflect you.

    The problem is that your little teabagger fantasies appear to be pulling the US even further down into decline. People who cynically push “austerity” for political power and fools like you who back them based on ignorance are responsible for the US recession dragging out, inflicting untold misery on Americans and others.

    Your stupidity is a danger to your country.

    [retrieved from moderation - pH]

  43. And speaking about US decline…

    The space shuttle programme closed today. It cost the US just under $200 billion in adjusted 2011 dollars, killed 14 Americans, and achieved greatness.

    The US is still in Afghanistan. It’s cost nearly $450 billion so far, killed over 2,500 Americans and tens of thousands of Afghans, installed a weak government noted for torture and repression, and made the US less safe by your own intelligence estimates.

    And as long as the teabaggers influence US politics, you’ll have any number of new wars, but you’ll never have another shuttle. Ever.

  44. “The problem is that your little teabagger fantasies appear to be pulling the US even further down into decline. People who cynically push “austerity” for political power and fools like you who back them based on ignorance are responsible for the US recession dragging out, inflicting untold misery on Americans and others.”

    It could be worse, and soon, like any day now. Moody’s had threatened to downgrade our credit rating by “mid-July” if we did not take care of raising the debt ceiling.

    The insanity of our government, our leaders, increases on a daily basis, as if we are in a suicidal spiral, it seems. What the hell is going on? To make a point about our debt, are we really going to default on the debts we have already incurred? I can hardly believe what is going on.

  45. I heard someone say recently about the T-buggers, “I’ve never seen so many people being so passionate about being wrong”. Heck the violators of our freedoms, loss of jobs etc, are the ones supporting the T-buggers.

  46. The Phoenician wrote:

    Wow – so let’s see – if the marginal tax rate at the lower end is 10%, and she withheld $400, that would mean she made about $4,000 that year?

    Once again, you demonstrate your outstanding knowledge.

    The IRS publishes federal income tax withholding schedules, based on the assumption that what one makes in a pay period is what he will make every pay period, and modified by the number of personal exemptions claimed on the employee’s Form W-4. Assuming that the person claimed one child (getting the $1,000 per child tax credit, the simplest way to get to John’s numbers), and had only personal exemptions and the standard deduction to take, you’d be looking at an income of roughly $19,700, or more than the minimum wage.

    That’s a quick and dirty calculation; a lot more can be factored in.

  47. Perry wrote:

    Yorkshire, is your daughter living in poverty? Is that $400 rebate a salvation for her? My guess is that she needs that $400 very badly, so that the rebate refund is a good thing for her.

    If you look at the 2010 Form 1040 Instructions (download here,) for Lines 64a and 64b, Earned Income Tax Credit, you’ll see that a married couple, filing jointly, can begin to claim the EITC with an income of up to $40,545 if they have one child living with them, up to $48,362 if they have three or more children living with them. Those numbers are well above the 50% split for AGI Tax filers in 2008 (I couldn’t find Tax Year 2010 data), at $33,040. We are, in effect, subsidizing with EITC eligibility the bottom half of income tax filers.

  48. The Phoenician wrote:

    The space shuttle programme closed today. It cost the US just under $200 billion in adjusted 2011 dollars, killed 14 Americans, and achieved greatness.

    The US is still in Afghanistan. It’s cost nearly $450 billion so far, killed over 2,500 Americans and tens of thousands of Afghans, installed a weak government noted for torture and repression, and made the US less safe by your own intelligence estimates.

    And as long as the teabaggers influence US politics, you’ll have any number of new wars, but you’ll never have another shuttle. Ever.

    Well, let’s see: the United States was actually attacked, which was the impetus for going after al Qaeda, hiding in Afghanistan, and their Taliban protectors. This was 2001, when there was no TEA Party. The Democrats complained that President Bush wasn’t paying enough attention to Afghanistan, and the Democrats, who won the 2006 and 2008 elections, have set Afghan war policy since those times. It was President Obama, not President Bush and not a TEA Partier, who went to the United States Military Academy to announce a “surge” in the Afghan war, and he did so well before the 2010 elections, when the Democrats had huge majorities in both Houses of Congress. It’s kind of difficult to blame the TEA Party, which didn’t exist when George Bush was President, and had no power until very recently, on the conduct of the Afghan war.

  49. Dana Pico says:
    22 July 2011 at 14:04

    Perry wrote:
    Yorkshire, is your daughter living in poverty? Is that $400 rebate a salvation for her? My guess is that she needs that $400 very badly, so that the rebate refund is a good thing for her.

    If you look at the 2010 Form 1040 Instructions (download here,) for Lines 64a and 64b, Earned Income Tax Credit, you’ll see that a married couple, filing jointly, can begin to claim the EITC with an income of up to $40,545 if they have one child living with them, up to $48,362 if they have three or more children living with them. Those numbers are well above the 50% split for AGI Tax filers in 2008 (I couldn’t find Tax Year 2010 data), at $33,040. We are, in effect, subsidizing with EITC eligibility the bottom half of income tax filers.

    Let’s look at it a different way, if you go to Yellowstone National Park, you will see signs that say don’t feed the wild life lest they become dependent on you (in the everybody sense). Just within the last two weeks a grizzly had a man sandwich. Moral of the story? The Government makes people dependent on them for their needs and wants.

    The other side to this is if you want more of it, subsidize it, pay people to not work, pay people not to self improve themselves. This will happen if Government becomes Uncle Sugar. Now if you want less of it, tax it. Take from the producers, the people creating jobs, the business people who want life’s rewards for hard work.

    This reminds me of a story where 10 guys meet at breakfast every day. They all order and then the check comes and it’s $100 with tip included. Since these men were from all strata of life. The high earner says I’ll pay $45, the next said he could afford $30, the next 5 throw $5 each and the last three got a free breakfast. This went on for a few weeks and the owner raised the price $10. Eight of the eaters looked at the two highest payers to throw $5 more for each. That day, they said OK. But the next day, the high roller doesn’t show up.

    And that’s what higher taxes will do. It will chase the high achievers to go elsewhere while everyone else is looking for others to pay. As Lady Margaret Thatcher said, what happens when you run out of people to tax? We’re there.

    [Edited for formatting purposes only; no changes made to text. -- DRP]

  50. The Phoenician wrote:

    And as long as the teabaggers influence US politics, you’ll have any number of new wars, but you’ll never have another shuttle. Ever.

    And as long as the teabaggers voters influence US politics, you’ll have any number of new wars, but you’ll never have another shuttle. Ever.

    Fixed that for you.

  51. Dana Pico says:
    22 July 2011 at 16:20
    The Phoenician wrote:

    And as long as the teabaggers influence US politics, you’ll have any number of new wars, but you’ll never have another shuttle. Ever.

    And as long as the teabaggers voters influence US politics, you’ll have any number of new wars, but you’ll never have another shuttle. Ever.

    Fixed that for you.

    For an alleged phony president who wants jobs, with the end of the shuttle, we just shipped all those jobs to Russia while thousands of US workers in the Space industry are unemployed. BO leads by his ass because we’re always going ass backwards.

  52. Every deduction and almost every credit cuts off once your income drops to zero. As an explanation, using sample numbers (I don’t know the actual numbers but these are relatively close if most likely under):

    Married family of 4.
    Standard deduction: 7000
    Personal deduction: 4 x 1500
    Child deduction: 2 x 1000
    _____
    Total deduction: 15,000

    If the total income is 14,000, the final 1000 deduction vanishes into thin air. Once you hit zero, the deduction stops.

    Single parent with 3 children.
    Standard deduction: 3700
    Personal deduction: 4 x 1500
    Child deduction: 3 x 1000
    _____
    Total deduction: 12,700

    If the total income is 12,000, the final 700 deduction vanishes into thin air. Once you hit zero, the deduction stops.

    This is true for all deductions and all credits except one: Earned income Tax Credit (EITC). If you replace your old furnace with a high efficiency furnace costing you 500, you can take a credit for 125. I did this in 2006 I believe, replacing a 1950s gas furnace with a 90 percent efficient one. Insulate your house? Credit for percentage of cost. Replace single-pane windows with energy efficient windows? Credit for percentage of cost. Child care for your children while you work (if your income is below a certain level)? Deduction or credit, I cannot remember which, for a percentage of cost. All these credits and deductions stop once your adjusted income drops to zero.

    Except EITC. When your adjusted income drops below zero, EITC says “keep going.” EITC is an income tax credit. It reduces your federal income tax. It doesn’t affect anything other than your federal income tax. Supposedly. But it lets you go below zero income and pays you back based on bottom rate for below zero. If you work for an employer — which, chances are if you’re below 25,000 you do — you also pay a combined Social Security and Medicare tax of 7.4 percent of your income, unadjusted, from the very first dollar. With the way EITC is set up (very different from all the deductions and all the other credits), it is possible for the Federal Government to give you back every penny of federal income tax, every penny of Social Security tax, every penny of Medicare tax, plus hundreds of dollars more on top of that. So, you could have paid 1000 dollars in federal income taxes, 600 dollars in Social Security taxes, 100 dollars in Medicare taxes and got a Federal Income Tax Return of 2500 dollars! Or 800 dollars more from the federal government in income tax returns than you paid them in income taxes, social security taxes, medicare taxes combined.

    Pictured as a 10-man crew, you have 5 men rowing forward, 4 men not rowing at all, and 1 man rowing backward, all with the intent of moving forward as efficiently (hah) as possible.

  53. Oh, and the person rowing backward? That’s not the person with the lowest income. You have to have a higher income than some people in order to achieve the status of “backward rower” the way EITC is set up.

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