26 Comments

  1. I was pleasantly surprised that a huge portion of my students knew not only that today was Pearl Harbor Day, but Delaware Day, too! Y’know, DE being the first to ratify that document that Thomas Jefferson wrote! ;-)

  2. Careful there, Hube. You’re dangerously close to being accused of claiming TJ wrote that thing, and being called a liar. You wouldn’t want that, would you?

    I toured the Mighty Mo, the WWII sub that was docked nearby and the museum next to the docked sub. I saw the Arizona Memorial and the leaking oil but didn’t actually get on the Arizona Memorial. It was definitely a sobering experience.

  3. The best movie ever made about this attck was Tore, Tora, Tora. Presented what was going on in real time from both sides with no editorializing.

  4. One of my favoritest of all time movies In Harm’s Way ought to be on today, but I haven’t seen it.

    It was on today on TCM. I watched it. Of course, that one section in the movie was more than a little bit undesirable.

  5. On Dec 7 1941, Japan attacked the United States in an aggressive war, killing 2,402 people. Later on, The International Military Tribunal for the Far East tried many of the leaders responsible for this for the “Class A” crime of participating in a joint conspiracy to start and wage war.

    On Mar 20, 2003, the United States attacked Iraq in an aggressive war. It is unknown how many were killed; it is likely that the number of troops that died in the three weeks until the fall of Baghdad, Apr 9 2003, were in the tens of thousands, maybe more. So far, no Americans have been charged with “Class A” crimes.

    So congratulations on remembering that, back in 1941, you yourselves were the victim of a militaristic empire starting a war of choice.

  6. And, as it turns out, the similarity has already been noted:

    This somber tome compares Japan’s decision to attack Pearl Harbor in 1941 and that of America’s to attack Iraq in 2003. In addition to assessing what planners were thinking, Dower analyzes how they came to believe their war would be both short and victorious. Indicting a range of intelligence deficiencies and bureaucratic breakdowns in each case, Dower critiques most cogently the cultural and even emotional mind-sets of the strategists. In both cases, he argues, a sense of injured innocence, an apocalyptic fear of the consequences of inaction, and contempt for the opponent prevailed, reinforced by selective appropriations of history. Dower particularly indicts proponents of invading Iraq for the analogy made to the American occupation of Japan—Dower is an expert on the subject (Embracing Defeat, 1999). In extended corollaries to his main subject, Dower also discusses the firebombing of Japanese cities, the atomic attacks of 1945, and the destruction of the World Trade Center in terms of psychology, symbolism, and morality. A forceful indictment of warlike attitudes, Dower’s work will spark debate about history and the Iraq War. –Gilbert Taylor

  7. On Mar 20, 2003, the United States attacked Iraq in an aggressive war.

    Oh sure. Iraq under Saddam Hussein was exactly like the USA was at the beginning of WW II.

    As usual, your brain is so full of left wing propaganda you can no longer see reality.

  8. Oh sure. Iraq under Saddam Hussein was exactly like the USA was at the beginning of WW II.

    They were alike in one very important way – they were attacked by a militaristic power in a war of choice.

  9. Phoenician in a time of Romans says:
    8 December 2010 at 13:30 (Edit)
    Oh sure. Iraq under Saddam Hussein was exactly like the USA was at the beginning of WW II.

    They were alike in one very important way – they were attacked by a militaristic power in a war of choice.

    Hussein – Hirohito, both start with an H, so they are relativisticly alike.

  10. My favorite WWII story is how, when the attack on the US was being discussed by the Japanese military, Yamamoto was originally against the idea, and against war with the US in general. He famously said that “If I am told to fight, I shall run wild for six months…but I have utterly no confidence” beyond that. Which is an uncanny analysis, considering that the Japanese success in the Pacific ended on June 7, 1942 at Midway, exactly six months later.

  11. I notice, Yorkshire, that you have failed completely to address my point.

    America in 1941 and Iraq in 2003 were alike in one very important way – they were attacked by a militaristic power in a war of choice.

  12. John, following the Muddy Mo’s grounding on Thimble Shoals in January 1950, she was repaired at the Norfolk Naval Shipyard. Later on my father arranged for me to be aboard on an all day cruise, I was only a young boy then but I got the run of the ship and was given an expended 3″ shell casing as a memento.

    We steamed out of the Chesapeake Bay, way beyond the Virginia Capes, I leaned not to spit off the weather rail. I wish I could remember more of the experience, at the time I didn’t know how special it was. Of course, I’d go again today if I got the chance.

  13. Still divorced from reality I see, NZT.

    Which part of this is incorrect, PB – America in 1941 and Iraq in 2003 were alike in one very important way – they were attacked by a militaristic power in a war of choice.

  14. Phoenician in a time of Romans says:
    8 December 2010 at 15:28
    I notice, Yorkshire, that you have failed completely to address my point.

    America in 1941 and Iraq in 2003 were alike in one very important way – they were attacked by a militaristic power in a war of choice.

    Oh, you were making a point. Hadn’t noticed through all the blathering.

  15. ropelight says:
    8 December 2010 at 16:31 (Edit)
    John, following the Muddy Mo’s grounding on Thimble Shoals in January 1950, she was repaired at the Norfolk Naval Shipyard.

    Thimble Shoals are well guarded now with the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel. Artificial islands for the Thimble Shoals Tunnel mark it well. But soon the want to lengthen the tunnels for the Shoals Channel and the Chesapeake Channel Tunnel.

    http://www.cbbt.com/facts.html (If you notice they do not post the channel clearence of Thimple Shoals Tunnel since it serves the Naval Base and it’s classified)

  16. Oh sure. Iraq under Saddam Hussein was exactly like the USA was at the beginning of WW II.

    They were alike in one very important way – they were attacked by a militaristic power in a war of choice.

    Well, if you want to stick up for Saddam Hussein’s regime, be my guest.

  17. Well, if you want to stick up for Saddam Hussein’s regime, be my guest.

    You really are a fool, arent you?

    Hitler was at war with both America and Russia. Stating this is not “sticking up for Stalin”.

    America in 1941 and Iraq in 2003 were alike in one very important way – they were attacked by a militaristic power in a war of choice.

  18. America in 1941 and Iraq in 2003 were alike in one very important way – they were attacked by a militaristic power in a war of choice.

    Blah blah blah. You keep repeating yourself, a tendency of the weak minded. Try being original for once.

  19. Hitler was at war with both America and Russia. Stating this is not “sticking up for Stalin”.

    PS You didn’t want America to liberate Iraq. That is, in essence, sticking up for Saddam Hussein.

  20. PS You didn’t want America to liberate Iraq. That is, in essence, sticking up for Saddam Hussein.

    Only if you’re an idiot who can’t think. Take a bow, Eric.

  21. PS You didn’t want America to liberate Iraq. That is, in essence, sticking up for Saddam Hussein.

    Only if you’re an idiot who can’t think. Take a bow, Eric.

    As I recall, you were cheering for America to lose in Iraq. That means you were both sticking up for the old regime as well as the foreign terrorists who poured in later.

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