In case you missed it, two lightweights, Stewart and Colbert, held a rally in DC yesterday. The attendance was helped by astroturfing measures and personally endorsed by none other than Barack Obama, but still didn’t hold a candle to Beck’s 10-2-10 8-28-10 Restoring Honor rally.
(From KeyPro (much bigger picture) via Gateway Pundit and American Power)
It was such a moderate, anti-radical rally that it invited a well-known mohammedan who supported the fatwah on Salman Rushdie and the murder of anyone who would dare disrespect Mohammed (the pedophile who created Islam out of whole cloth and married a six-year-old girl but chose not to have relations with her until she was nine years old).
From Patterico’s Pontifications:
my jaw dropped wide open when Stewart introduced a man named “Yusuf.” That would be Yusuf Islam, the man formerly known as Cat Stevens, who then played a rendition of his song “Peace Train.”
That would be the same Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens who endorsed the Fatwah against Salman Rushdie. For instance, the New York Times reported (registration required) as follows in 1989:
The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ”I would have hoped that it’d be the real thing.”
The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini’s call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ”The Satanic Verses.” He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ”I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.”
”I’d try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,” said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.
That would be the same Yusuf Islam that Charles Johnson (in his sane period) quoted as saying: “The Qur’an makes it clear, if someone defames the Prophet, then he must die.” (As of this writing, Johnson has made no mention of Stevens/Islam’s presence at the rally. Color me surprised.) This is the same Yusuf Islam who threatened Farrukh Dhondy:
In the first week of the fatwa against Rushdie and his book, I [Dhondy] appeared on a television panel. Among the Muslim panelists, all of whom favored condemning the book, were two zealots: the same Kalim Siddiqui; and Yusuf Islam, the Muslim convert pop singer of Greek Cypriot origin formerly known as Cat Stevens. The moderator asked if, in my role as a commissioning editor of Channel 4 UK, I would contemplate turning The Satanic Verses into a film. I said that I would judge the cinematic merits of the script, and that no other consideration would rule it out. Kalim Siddiqui and Yusuf Islam snarled, warning that the sentence of death on Rushdie would extend to all those who forwarded his book in any way.
And this ___hole is in the rally to restore sanity?!
Salman Rushdie wrote to the UK Telegraph about this man the Restoring Vanity rally had on stage.
Cat Stevens wanted me dead
However much Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam may wish to rewrite his past, he was neither misunderstood nor misquoted over his views on the Khomeini fatwa against The Satanic Verses (Seven, April 29). In an article in The New York Times on May 22, 1989, Craig R Whitney reported Stevens/Islam saying on a British television programme “that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ‘I would have hoped that it’d be the real thing’.”
He added that “if Mr Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ‘I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like. I’d try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is’.”
In a subsequent interview with The New York Times, Mr Whitney added, Stevens/Islam, who had seen a preview of the programme, said that he “stood by his comments”.
Let’s have no more rubbish about how “green” and innocent this man was.
Salman Rushdie, New York
Ed Driscoll has the video of Cat Stevens being vile.
So those on stage couldn’t exactly be considered moderates since they had a radical extremist on stage with them. How about the crowd (which was far and away smaller than the Restoring Honor crowd)?
Jim Treacher quotes the New York Times.
NYT finds honest-to-Jon moderate attending the Rally to Annoy Beck Back
Or… do they? From yesterday’s story titled, “Jon Stewart and His Rally May Shun Politics, but Attendees Are Embracing It”:
Jon Stewart insists that his “Rally to Restore Sanity” planned for the National Mall on Saturday is not political. But just about everything surrounding the event is.
Interviews with some of the tens of thousands of people expected to attend suggest that they want a message, not a simple comedy show. Liberal groups like Media Matters and Naral Pro-Choice America will be out in force to attract new members and even Organizing for America, President Obama’s political organization, wants to draw attendees to phone banks set up near the Mall.
Tracie Lewis Kinard, 36, from Mobile, Ala., said that when she heard about the rally, “I felt like my way of thinking was finally being represented.”
She is spending about $750 on a flight and two nights at a hotel. It is worth it, she said. “For one moment, the moderates will be the news.”
Look at all that leftist recruitment work! And that “moderate” woman? Eh, not so much. As Mr Treacher found so easily, she’s no moderate.
If you don’t have a problem with illegal immigration, you’re no moderate. You’re a flaming leftist. And if the New York Times thinks she’s a moderate, that only serves to prove how far to the left of center the NYT actually is. (Not that any thinking person would believe otherwise.) But that’s just one person, right?
Is that a communist recruiting at the Restoring Vanity rally? Why, yes. Yes, that is.
If NAMBLA is centrist, this nation has more problems than I thought. American Power has many more pictures of the supposedly centrist, lovey-dovey crowd. And, no, I don’t think I need to be joining their leftist forces anytime within the next 100 centuries.
I guess that the Religion of Peace has converted another one to the Islamic version of peace.
Cat Stevens biggest hit was his rendition of Morning Has Broken, a Christian hymn (lyrics here):
Cat Stevens’ other songs included Peace Train:
Yusef Islam has frequently denied that he made statements favoring the assassination of Salmon Rushdie, claiming that what he said was hypothetical or joking or whatever, and simply referred to the Q’ranic specification that the punishment for blasphemy is death. But the man is an Englishman, born in London, and reared in the liberal West: for him to state that the punishment for blasphemy is death is an indication that the Western civilization in which he grew up has been at least partially stripped away by his conversion to Islam.
you what is funny?
the old 60′s hippies appear to have a new set of contrary millennial hippies on their hands now. LOL
it really is ironic.
the interesting thing about it is they will be the destruction of each other.
* imeant to type*
you know what is funny
sorry for the typo
Pardon me, but when you say “via KeyPro”, what you mean to say is “a totally unsourced document by an anonomous poster called “keypro” on FreeRepublic, well noted as being a source of inaccurate right-wing propaganda”.
There is no source for this, there is no context, there is no proof.
This picture is, on all evidence, a lie. Naturally enough, PB embraces it immediately.
The actual evidence is here.
And, as above, the methodology is explained here.
So where did the “KeyPro” picture come from? Who took it? How do you know when it was taken? Why is it at odds with all the other estimates? Why did it only show up as an anonoymously sourced pice on a wingnut cesspit? Who stands behind it?
No wonder people laugh at teabaggers.
Flop News: Even Palin Can’t Save Beck From Rally Attendance Fail:
pho, are you actually pinning your hopes and dreams on american political rally count outcome spats?
peculiar, why a librarian from nz would be so caught up in our blog here, i mean a super-duper brilliant guy like yourself ought to be on the roster for a lot more important high profile banter.. (no disrespect to CSPT mr Pico
)
you need a life, or at least it is time for you throw a nugget out there to pretend to us you have a life and significance. i am home with a mild case of the flu and lots of time on my hands this week,(and according to perry im angry and scared lol) what is your excuse?
lol
Anyone who doesn’t like the message can always attack the messenger. It’s shortsighted and ultimately unproductive, but there is precedent for it, albeit from those who refuse to see what’s right under their own noses.
you need a life, or at least it is time for you throw a nugget out there to pretend to us you have a life and significance. i am home with a mild case of the flu and lots of time on my hands this week,(and according to perry im angry and scared lol) what is your excuse?
Well, my gf has just gone to work; I’m still in bed (at 8.15 or so), about to get up and get breakfast, and then spend the day working on a assessment for a tertiary course, maybe going into work to use the computer systems there. The assessment involves information resource searching and evaluation with about five different databases. Yesterday, I managed to con her into going for a walk up Hawkins Hill towards the radar dome – she took pictures of an ostrich which I believe was trying to court her. On Friday we’re taking the day off, and driving north for the weekend to attend a garden festival. Life’s pretty good.
peculiar, why a librarian from nz would be so caught up in our blog here,
I’m not that brilliant assinhead. The problem is that you’re so abysmally ignorant and you’re judging me on a relative basis.
MEANWHILE this isn’t the first time wingnuts have been caught deliberately lying about crowd numbers.
Anyone who doesn’t like the message can always attack the messenger.
A messenger who has to lie to make himself look relevant probably isn’t worth listening to.
aotc, the truth is that he’s been banned from so many other sites that only a misguided and overly indulgent teddy bear like Dana will tolerate his vile comments. Consequently, we all suffer the misfortune of his malevolence so Dana can say he supports free and open dialogue, Dana’s skirts are kept clean.
From Charlie Martin, who provides detailed analysis of crowd size:
NZT said:
NZT relies on CBS, that organization who got caught red-handed in RatherGate, that “fake but accurate” (aka a lie) report on GWBs time in the military. NZT also lies on a regular basis and resorts to homoerotic vulgarities and other vulgarities to personally attack people and has been banned from many a site for his disgusting behavior.
yea, pho we can tell you fancy fiction as well. lol
thanks for the warning pho, but we were already on to your tactics. and no, we dont listen to you that closely anyhow..
Hey, PB – when citing a source, it helps to actually point at the right thing, you know.
Otherwise – I dunno – we might find that the person you’re citing is a hack conspiracy theorist who writes for a joke like Pajamas Media…
And yet, GWB jerked off his service, and the Rally to Restore Sanity, naturally bitterly hated by Hitchcock, had more people than Beck’s rally.
Truth is a bitch, isn’t it?
But it looks like you found yet another rightwing Dick Tracy to look at two single photos in disparate locations and declare a crowd count.
The Restoring Honor rally had more than double the number as the Restoring Vanity rally, dimwit. Photographic evidence proves it. You go right ahead and believe CBS, an organization that got caught red-handed lying about Bush’s military service, instead of the actual photographic evidence proving CBS is, yet again, an organization of leftist liars.
And yeah, whistler, stand up in support of radical islamists, communists, and pedophiles who want to legalize pedophilia.
You’ll notice something amusing – the liberals aren’t angry, but amused, but the wingnuts are all huffing and puffing and ranting about numbers…
And yeah, whistler, stand up in support of radical islamists, communists, and pedophiles who want to legalize pedophilia.
So, PB – you and a couple of mates beaten up any small unarmed women today?
“And yeah, whistler, stand up in support of radical islamists, communists, and pedophiles who want to legalize pedophilia.”
Um, no. And you sound like a nutter. I know Jon Stewart says I have to not demonize you, so I’ll say I’m sure you’re probably capable of carrying yourself normally in society, most likely you might even be a nice fellow. But the things you say are still really really crazy. And really quite radical. I’ve been spending the last two years watching my supposedly radical commie President pre-emptively compromise with you guys without getting a single thing for it except the votes of people who were already supposedly Democrats.
I mean, you’re sitting there trying to argue about Beck’s smaller numbers, which Mike and I predicted you guys would be doing immediately, but we’re forgetting that GLENN BECK IS A F’ING FRUITCAKE. What does the man have to say to turn you guys off? He could start flinging feces at the camera and conducting his telecasts from the bosom of a wetnurse and you guys would be all, AT LEAST HE SUPPORTS FREEDOM YOU COMMIES!
I dunno, but the second a rightwinger says “commie” I think it’s clear the argument is already over, and they’re just trying to substitute noise for reason. Call it Whistler’s law.
BTW, even though anything you hear on CBS is more reliable than anything you hear on FOX, they didn’t do the estimate.
Keep fear alive, Hitchcock!
“henry i will have a coronary event before i even get 50% gray hair because i am meaner than 7 shades of owl shit whistler”
i can almost guarantee it. mark my word.
out of the blue, one of your sodium, calcium, potassium channels are going to drop out one day from the type A stress levels and BOOM, you wont know what hit you. lights out baby.
this might aply to pho. librarians may have a more timid lifestyle though.
id have to see his ekg strip to make that call.
lol
Maybe y’all oughta read this.
this might aply to pho. librarians may have a more timid lifestyle though.
id have to see his ekg strip to make that call.
Wishing death on your opponents? Classy.
Fortunately, you’ll never suffer a stroke, assinhead…
And, hey, while you’re here Hube?
Hube: Yay, yet another rightwing Dick Tracy. This one forgets the Reflecting Pool is in the middle of the Beck rally.
I trust an outfit whose specialty is estimating crowds for various clients vs. some amateur with a calculator who can’t even be bothered to count the heads.
You guys *always* do this stuff. Whenever you don’t like what you hear, somebody on the right-o-sphere is ready to whip up something truthy enough to ease your worries. Screw methodology, deliver the bias. And then you sit and lecture other people about objectivity and not twisting the truth to fit preconceived notions.
And of course, proper methodology of statisticians, whose professional expertise, independent of any US Government money, the Cons continue to believe our lying government. Again, disdain for academia, characteristic of Fascism.
Whistler forgets the green grass to the left of the Reflecting Pool in the picture is as wide as the whole center of the Insane Rally, and as full of people. Whistler also forgets all the area to the right of the Reflecting Pool. Whistler also forgets the whole depth of the crowd.
Why don’t you look at the map below the picture showing the area involved before you look so foolish next time you spout a meme you saw on some other leftist site?
aww, i was just offering free health advice pho. electrophysiology is real science. and you progressives are getting really anxious and its exhibited here you all are edgy type A personalities. but, whatever… carry on
i was merely trying to help. lol
Adn while you’re here:
“Thomas Jefferson wrote the Constitution.” — Phoenician in a time of Romans
Of course you will, Whistler. Until, of course, that outfit conflicts with what your dogmatic narrative tells you. (And if you read the thread, the Reflecting Pool area was subtracted from the calculations.) I honestly could care less what the figures were for each rally. But I don’t trust CBS nor any other MSM outfit when it comes to honestly reporting on a guy like Beck.
And please spare your sanctimonious lecturing about “always doing this stuff.” You cretins have no one else to blame but yourselves and the lapdog MSM for the distrust conservatives have for you and yours. Yeah — CBS … fake George W. Bush National Guard story right before the election. And you fops wonder why Fox News’ popularity is so sky high?
Maybe you’ll write a self-congratulatory post about it over at Iowa Liberal. Again.
John Hitchcock, a credible organization used science to measure the crowd sizes, so suck it up and move forward.
Just like credible organizations proved there was no systematic disenfranchisement of Florida voters in 2000. But you keep pushing that dogma, don’t you — just like John Kerry and myriad other pathetic race baiters.
PiaToR said:
Yeah, Hube, while you’re still here: That was a pretty sneaky trick you pulled to publish the dissenting minority opinion of the Civil Service Commission which investigated the 2000 Florida voting and vote counting irregularities, for which I, at the time unknowing, gave you my kudos. PiaToR has straightened your rear end out on that one, therefore I retract my kudos, and in exchange offer you my condemnation for your dirty trick.
Yeah — a commission made up of 4 liberals and only two conservatives … the latter two of which actually proved their case scientifically and rationally that there was no systematic disenfranchisement of Florida voters in 2000. This is not unlike a SCOTUS decision with the huge difference being that in this case we don’t have to accept the ridiculous platitudes proffered by Mary Frances Berry and the majority.
I’m sure you think that since Citizens United was decided by a majority (of conservatives) that it is the rightly decided answer, hmm? At least with regards to FL 2000 there’s actual statistical science etc. involved.
And you know where you can stuff your condemnation. At least I actually had a clue about the situation, not relying on what Olbermann, Schultz, Kos and the DU told me about it.
And, hey, while you’re here Hube?
Adn while you’re here:
“Thomas Jefferson wrote the Constitution.” — Phoenician in a time of Romans
Yes, Hube – but when it was pointed out I was wrong, I acknowledged my mistake and moved on. This is because I am a liberal, and deal with reality,
You, on the other hand:
Yeah — a commission made up of 4 liberals and only two conservatives … the latter two of which actually proved their case scientifically and rationally that there was no systematic disenfranchisement of Florida voters in 2000.
Hube, as I have pointed oyt again and again, the anaIyst they used has since abandoned his stance. Further, the dissent was dealt with in the report itself – see Appendix X.
So let’s contrast:
When PiaToR is wrong, he admits the mistake and moves on. When Hube is shown to be wrong, he whines, ignores the evidence proving him wrong, and goes silent rather than deal with face facts.
Which sums up the difference between liberals and wingnuts quite nicely.
Spanked again, Hube.
Just like credible organizations proved there was no systematic disenfranchisement of Florida voters in 2000.
This “credible organisation” would be John Lott – an academic joke – who has since even abandoned the argument he gave in that dissent.
Spanked again, Hube.
Actually, when Hube is wrong he does the same. He does this, however, when he is actually proven wrong. You haven’t done so. There’s a big difference between an actual, salient fact (Jefferson not writing the Constitution) and differences of opinion regarding statistical anaIysis pertaining to myriad permutations. Even the Appendix you cite as “proof” is just more opinion that differs from Thernstrom, et. al. Period. You also haven’t adequately explained the grand GOP “conspiracy” of “suppressing” the black vote in FL when Democrats actually controlled the areas in which the vast majority of blacks voted.
Oops. Get out the belt again, daddy.
Actually, when Hube is wrong he does the same. He does this, however, when he is actually proven wrong. You haven’t done so.
Uh-huh. Dude, John Lott himself has abandoned teh argument you insist has merit, and he was responsible for it.
Spanked again.
Even the Appendix you cite as “proof” is just more opinion that differs from Thernstrom, et. al. Period.
Here’s the Appendix again, Hube.
Do please tell us where the opinion comes in for statements such as:
or
or
Appendix X demolished the dissenter’s objections so comprehensively that John Lott abandoned the claims he made. The only person defending it is you, and the basis for your objection appears to be “I don’t understand what Lichtman is saying therefore it is only opinion”.
It is not opinion. It is statistical anaIysis. The reason why you don’t understand it is because you are ignorant. And the fact is that:
Spanked again, Hube.
Even the Appendix you cite as “proof” is just more opinion that differs from Thernstrom, et. al. Period.
Here’s the Appendix again, Hube.
Do please tell us where the opinion comes in for statements such as:
or
or
Appendix X demolished the dissenter’s objections so comprehensively that John Lott himself abandoned the claims he made. The only person defending it is you, and the basis for your objection appears to be “I don’t understand what Lichtman is saying therefore it is only opinion”.
It is not opinion. It is statistical anaIysis. The reason why you don’t understand it is because you are ignorant. And the fact is that:
Spanked again, Hube.
See — even Allan Lichtman, whom you cite, says “I pointed no fingers of blame at supervisors or any other officials, but called for studies to determine the causes of disparate treatment of black voters in Florida.” Except that … you and Perry did precisely that. And that has been my stance since day one — that there is no evidence of systematic disenfranchisement of [black] voters in Florida in 2000. But that being said, Lichtman ignores:
A conundrum! So, if Lichtman “isn’t pointing fingers at anyone,” what’s the explanation? You and Perry have already opined that some GOP conspiracy is to blame to give the election to George Bush — which, of course, overlooks the fact that Democrats by and large controlled the areas in which blacks voted and had their votes counted.
Even Lichtman doesn’t assign blame nor claim there was a systematic attempt to thwart black voting. (Yet he does ignore who exactly ran those voting areas!) That’s precisely what I’ve claimed since DAY ONE. Exactly this. You can keep repeating “Florida’s overzealous efforts to purge voters from the rolls, conducted under the guise of an anti-fraud campaign, resulted in the inexcusable and patently unjust removal of disproportionate numbers of African American voters from Florida’s voter registration rolls for the November 2000 election,” but that doesn’t change the FACT on iota that — wait for it — there was no systematic and purposeful attempt to disenfranchise black voters. Indeed, that “purge” still allowed thousands of felons who weren’t permitted to vote to do precisely that.
not to interrupt rehashing old times or anything…
but this rally. you know, jon stewart wanted to mock the crazy yokel americans on the right? may have been the best rally cry to get out the right wing yokel vote evah. nothing like calling your majority lizard brained enemy stupid and and crazy to push them out to the polls to “learn them smartypants a lesson they’ll not soon ferget”
jon stewart is ironically not that smart. but nevertheless, ironic. lol
go ahead progressives, keep on mocking. us lizard brains dont know enough to be hurt and emotionally manipulated dont you know, we animals just do what our primitive brains tell us. we dont emote and try to figure it out, the fastest “out” for us dimwits this time is the voting booth pulling “r”. duh. your superior intellect is complicating things for you. you need to start thinking like the snakes you are.
hey perry, since you now have a new role model to follow for civility, ill offer this. in his own words. mr jon stewart:
http://dailycaller.com/2010/11/01/great-moments-in-civility-with-your-host-jon-stewart/
Lichtman states:
Which seems to contradict this which I posted on the very first thread about this whole matter.
By the way, for the record, here’s what started this whole tidbit:
Can someone please point out for us precisely where the proof is that Florida Republicans suppressed the black vote in Florida in 2000? Have you shown precisely that, Phoeny?
No, you have not.
Oops.
The Commission report concluded that its investigation had not uncovered “conclusive evidence” that state officials were involved in a conspiracy to keep minorities from voting.
That wording alone shows that the Commission was liberal/Democrat dominated since
One last thing, Phoeny: Can you show me a source that backs up what Lichtman said about John Lott backing away from his Florida voting analysis?
Last comment in mod…
Even Lichtman doesn’t assign blame nor claim there was a systematic attempt to thwart black voting. (Yet he does ignore who exactly ran those voting areas!) That’s precisely what I’ve claimed since DAY ONE.
Well DONE on attempting to change the goal posts there, Hube. Not good enough, of course.
Readers will, of course, remember that you were, in fact, denying that there was in fact any such disenfranchishment since DAY ONE.
Let’s go back to the “and another thing” thread, shall we?
And then, of course, you spent your time arguing that there was no voter suppression – and got your ass spanked.
You are, of course, confusing a “systematic attempt” with assigning blame. As the report clearly states in the executive summary:
The reason why they don’t “assign blame” is because, legally, they cannot assign blame. It is their job to uncover evidence of voter discrimination which they did, and the job of others to prosecute.
Of course the county officials in the mostly black counties most affected by the discrimination are mostly Democrat – the counties were mostly Democrat. But, oops, you seem to have overlooked this bit:
Quite clearly, the Commission places the responsibilty at the State level; quite clearly they are indicating a “purposeful” attempt to disenfrancise African-Americans disproportionately.
Which Lichtman proved.
We notice you no longer seem to be attempting to defend the statistical anaIsis even its own author abandoned. But, you know, you were swearing by it just a moment agao – and now you seem to have forgotten about it.
Strange how your passionate convictions change so suddenly.
So, in summary:
i, There was evidence of voter suppression.
ii, The Commission which you first bought up found that it included the “purposeful use of erroneous listings”, which makes it systematic
iii, The finger was pointed at the State level – specifically “The governor, the secretary of state, or the director of the Division of Elections” (all of whom, surprise, surprise, were Republican) and the call was made for a DoJ investigation.
Once again:
Spanked again, Hube.
The Commission report concluded that its investigation had not uncovered “conclusive evidence” that state officials were involved in a conspiracy to keep minorities from voting.
That wording alone shows that the Commission was liberal/Democrat dominated since
… in 24 of the 25 Florida counties with the highest rates of ballot spoilage, the electoral machinery was in the hands of Democratic local officials, and in the 25th the supervisor of elections was an Independent. The choice of voting technology and of counting procedures, that is, had nothing to do with Governor Bush and Secretary of State Harris.
EXACT cite, please. I’m going to guess thatthis doesn’t even appear in the report, buit in the dissenting statement which has just been demolished – which is why you dishonestly did not include a link.
EXACT cite, please. I’m going to guess that this doesn’t even appear in the report, buit in the dissenting statement which has just been demolished – which is why you dishonestly did not include a link.
It is in Thernstrom’s report, yes, previously cited. Something which you, nor anyone else, refutes!
Really? Readers can read for themselves exactly what I argued — that there was no systematic disenfranchisement of Florida voters. If one looks back at the various threads where I may have omitted “systematic” or other synonyms, then I offer my apologies.
No, the liberal bloc of the Commission places that blame there. And notice it only concerns the felon purge list — the same list which somehow permitted over 6000 felons to illegally vote. Quite clearly, liberal/Democrats would not want to assign blame to the 24 of 25 Democratic counties which were run by Democrats now, would they? How would that look when formulating their “racist GOP” theory?
Since I am admittedly ignorant of anaIyzing such data myself, I personally cannot adequately ascertain Lott’s anaIysis. From what I have seen thus far, you are going on Lichtman’s word only that Lott retracted his anaIysis. In addition, it seems that in one crucial instance, Lichtman purposely twisted Lott’s terminology to make the latter appear to say something he did not (the percentages of AA Republicans and ballot spoilage). I am still trying to find concrete confirmation that Lott indeed retracted his anaIysis. If I discover such, I will happily retract that aspect of my comments made here.
It may appear that way.
“Purposeful and erroneous listings?” The same listings which “purposefully and erroneously” forgot to omit over 6000 felons which were then illegally permitted to vote? Is that “systematic” too?
Of course it was, as noted above. What a surprise! But again, this references the felon purge list only, not the hassles encountered locally at voting places. Oops.
BREAKING NEWS:
I e-mailed John Lott to ask if he retracted (or “abandoned” as Phoeny used) his Election 2000 anaIysis from Florida — something which Phoeny posted that his source, Allan Lichtman claimed — and here is his response, received but a few short minutes ago:
Hube: nice red herring. Surely a dispute over a 500 vote disparity is the same as the science of crowd size measurement.
It’s really simple: Crowd size experts who make that their business trumps rightwing blogger.
Every time. If they want to engage with AirPhotos and argue methodology with them, I’d love to see it.
Until then, right-wingers have demonstrated that time and time again they will throw feces at any scientific analysis if it crosses their political agenda. You may know my name, I’m Henry “Down with science” Whistler, and rightwing junk science hacks really hate me. Ask DNW or ropelight. Maybe you too, but when Dr. Mann was exonerated multiple times for accusations of fudging climate change numbers I don’t remember you offering any mea culpas.
Pho’s generally nasty and unpleasant demeanor shows the typical left wing personality. These people hate freedom, hate the American ideals set forth by our Founders, and want to impose instead a government stuffed with bureaucratic mediocrities like themselves to rule over their betters.
Since more people showed up in DC this past weekend than showed up to see weepy Glenn Beck I’m sure the cable news networks (librullamestreammsm) are devoting hours of talk time towards asking politicians what they plan on doing to appease this latest populist tidal wave, right? Right?
Eric, while I’m uncompromising in my denunciation of the cancer infecting this site, I still hope that honorable Democrats, reasonable adult Americans who reject the insane agenda of the far left-wing ideologues, will rise up, take back their party, and re-assume their rightful place as full partners in the political life of our nation.
I left this link for all to see, this documentary makes clear the disenfranchisement of Black Americans. I thought I left it here last night, before I went to bed, and I can’t find it now. So, if folks that are interested in learning facts, I will leave it here again. Seems I can’t find it now. It’s called American Blackout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2p2x3Q39U8
Part 1 of nine parts of the documentary starts here. For those minds that are not afflicted with that learning disorder known as “already knowing everything”. So, for the honest, inquiring minds…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y37Qz1cXFUM&feature=related
The actual agenda, not the rambling madness version you get from Beck/Palin/Limbaugh, etc.
As in, what is extreme about the actual agenda of Democrats?
Not the crazy person version, that was what I was getting at.
Uh, what?
If it’s really that simple, I wonder what the [rightwing] bloggers who exposed CBS’s fraud story about GW Bush would say about that. After all, ain’t CBS in the business of researching and reporting [accurate] new stories?
Oops.
You didn’t even check that link, did’ja?
Uh huh. Like totally banning DDT even though moderate amounts can save millions of lives without environmental damage, you mean? Oh, wait, that left-wingers “demonstrating that time and time again they will throw feces at any scientific analysis if it crosses their political agenda.” Sorry, this stuff is a two-way street.
Maybe that’s b/c 1) I happen to believe in climate change, 2) but I don’t necessarily buy that man is the main culprit behind it, and 3) those supposed “exonerations” still left a lot to be desired about the antics of scientists like Mann. You and who you were arguing with didn’t seem to want to accept any sort of moderation in that … “debate” IIRC.
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Oh, and just one more bit of info for Phoeny on his conspiracy theory that the Florida GOP was purposefully trying to disenfranchise black voters in 2000:
This is from John Fund’s book, Stealing Elections.
Now since you keep pasting
as somehow “proof” that the state GOP was sinisterly attempting to disenfranchise African-Americans, how does one account for the above? Even the recommendations you (Phoeny) note above courtesy of the liberal bloc of the USCCR cannot equal a GOP conspiracy for them following the laws/rules established by their Democratic predecessors. Further, when you cite
African-Americans being on placed on the list more often implicitly means that “proportionate representation” philosophy applies. IOW, since AAs were only 20.4% of the pop., they therefore must make up approx. that same % of the purge list. However, this doesn’t square at all with nationwide crime statistics for AAs based on their % of the pop., does it? Next, the claim that blacks were on the list erroneously more often directly conflicts with Fund’s (and the dissenting USCCR camp’s) statistics.
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Comment before this one is in moderation ….
Hube you have an opportunity to learn about it the disenfranchisement in the documentary I left the link for. Are you just going to spout off, ignoring the reality? Probably. That, once again leave you with egg on your face, while you espouse you “all knowingness”. Almost funny, but tragic that people like you vote in your intentional ignorance. Ignore all facts that displease you, and you can be perpetually “right”. That is the “right” wing for ya.
Ulsterman at NewsFlavor has another email from his inside source at Obama’s White House, his report is dated 10/31/2010 and was also posted at WorldPolitics.
“A brief emailed message…once again reinforces the significant rift between House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the president–and a looming cloud of scandal now threatening the Obama White House.”
——–
Author’s Note: Despite what is clearly a very work-intensive schedule, we are pleased to have received an email update from our White House Insider source – and equally pleased to be able to share that email with our readers. Tentative plans are being made for another in depth interview following the November elections.
______
“The Wednesday meeting by Democratic Party leaders once again confirmed. White House members involved told to “sit down and shut up.” War within party totally engaged now. Updated election internals showing trends breaking against Democrats as predicated. Now appears we will lose up to 60 seats in House and possibly split Senate. Mood within party very grim – and very angry toward president. I have never seen party members so actively motivated to openly challenge a sitting president in their own party. Trip to India has Dems shaking heads in disbelief. Phrase “running away” being repeated often. WH appears oblivious to situation.
Once again, CLOSELY watch for Pelosi news. Speaker preparing for departure from Congress, but going to burn bridges as she does so – namely all those leading to the White House. Speculation she will assist in clearing way for Congressional investigations against Obama White House in coming year. In effect, Pelosi willing to help take Obama down. Quote from within her office that came back to me as follows, “How that -expletive- idiot ever got elected is beyond me. Well let’s see how he does without me around to carry his -expletive- water.” Pelosi very unhappy receiving directive from WH to not attempt any significant legislation during lame duck session. “Leave a mess for the Republicans.” Pelosi furious over directive as it will further diminish her legacy. I don’t think the lady likes being told what to do…”
Oh, and just one more bit of info for Phoeny on his conspiracy theory that the Florida GOP was purposefully trying to disenfranchise black voters in 2000:
This would be the findings of the USCCR report that you refer to as my “conspiracy theory”?
I e-mailed John Lott
Yes? And yet, strangely enough, you left out your email (since your ability to truthfully represent what others say is questionable at best), and links to the papers Lott mentions. Since, as far as I know, Lott has never dealt with the demolishing of his position which Lichtman gave in Appendix X, I find it very… interesting… that you don’t provide such links so people can see for themselves.
And need I point out yet again that Lott is an academic joke due to sockpuppeting, incorrect anaIysis to fit his desired conclusion, and actually making up surveys?
Now since you keep pasting
as somehow “proof” that the state GOP was sinisterly attempting to disenfranchise African-Americans, how does one account for the above?
You are asking me why I don’t have the legal evidence of guilt, when the USCCR didn’t assign guilt but called for a DoJ investigation into the matter? Your standard is, in fact, that I cannot report on findings that would only come out in court when no court prosecution was made?
So let’s see if I have this straight – you’re saying that the reason why so many people who did not commit felonies and happened to be African-American were purged from the roll was because African-Americans commit more felonies than other people? And that dropping people from a voter list because they had the same skin colour as felons doesn’t constitute discrimination?
Gee – if only we could find some reporting on how the voter-purging was conducted…
But surely that wasn’t allowed to continue?…
But let us consider this carefully if the situation was reversed.
Let us imagine a group that votes strongly Republican, say white males over 65. Let us imagine that a Democrat run State figured out a way to purge them disproportionatly. Let us imagine that the US agency responsible for sniffing this sort of thing out actually published a report finding this and recommended that the DoJ launch an investigation and prosecution. And let us imagine that there was overwhelmingly strong evidence that this had cost a Republican candidate a vital vote that should have been rightfully his.
We know precisely what your reaction would be.
In summary, then,
i, Lichtman’s takedown of Lott still stands until Hube shows otherwise.
ii, The fraud and deceit in Florida has been reported on extensively, and the NACP bought a civil rights suit against Florida on that basis.
iii, the USCCR found voter suppression of blacks, which was systematic, and put the blame at the State level.
Once again:
Spanked again, Hube.
Just a few questions, Hube:
i, Should people who are eligible to vote be allowed to vote?
ii, Should African-Americans who are eligible to vote be allowed to vote?
iii, Should African-Americans who are eligible to vote in Florida be allowed to vote?
iv, Do you honestly believe that, in Florida of 2000, the State did all it could to allow African-Americans who are eligible to vote in Florida be allowed to vote?
I know I shouldn’t ask, because we all know you don’t have any honesty. But, what the hell, maybe you’ll surprise everybody.
Oh, and on the original subject of the rallies, Airphotolive has actual images of the size of the rallies. You’ll note that they are not “composites” created by anonymous posters of FreeRepublic.
Oh, you don’t mean to say they lied, did you, at FR? Oh, what a surprise.
ropelight wrote:
A teddy bear? I’ll have you know that I’m a very manly man!
Mr Whistler wrote:
Well, we’re going to have a nationwide rally tomorrow, and this time we’ll be actually counting the people. Will there be more at the Beck Restoring Honor rally tomorrow, or the Stewart Restoring Sanity affair, or even the One Nation rally?
We’ll be getting the first attendance numbers from the Kentucky area rally by about 1830-1900 tomorrow!
The 2000 Florida vote? My analysis is that slightly more Floridians went to the polls intending to vote for Al Gore, but, because Republicans are generally smarter and more highly educated than Democrats, slightly more people who intended to vote for George Bush actually cast legitimate, non-spoiled ballots.
There is a slight penalty paid by the party relying on the less intelligent voters, in that the less intelligent are more likely to make a disenfranchising error in casting their ballots; that’s what happened to Al Gore in 2000.
Eric:
Eric, this statement of yours is without foundation and is total crapola! Moreover, I’m not very impressed with your demeanor on here either!! Shall I fish a few out to make my point?
Perry, I’m not at all pleased with your shilling for someone who is well known for his lying and homoerotic vulgarities targeted at commenters on this blog. I am not at all pleased you would hold him up as an example for emulation. That you do with regularity disgusts me.
he likes pho because pho will say tings that perry wants to say but wont because he want to keep up the facade that he is morally virtuous and has a love of mankind. and, well if he said those things he would be looked at as a pervert at the child agency he volunteers at.
there is no difference between pho and perry. it is just that simple.
As the Patriot Act came about, did you hear any Republicans protesting it? THAT is what has damaged our freedom. It’s only LIBERALS that stand up for Liberty.
There’s nothing “sinister” in my motives, despite your constant projection, Phoeny. Here is my initial e-mail:
As for leaving off the link, since he e-mailed me the two pdf’s, I had to [re]Google and found his for you. I believe he has two revisions/additions up since his original. (Funny how a research-intensive librarian could not discover them for himself …)
Except that, as noted previously here and originally elsewhere, I showed that there was an investigation by the DOJ. And, apparently, they did not find evidence of what you’re asserting. And what precisely are you saying here? You’re not only reporting on the findings… but you’re concluding that the a state GOP conspiracy is responsible. Something which the USCCR did not do nor Allen Lichtman.
No, you’re saying that. And I suggest you look at the quote you provide directly after (in your post) what you wrote above and see if you can possibly make any connection. In addition, I suggest you look at the information provided by Fund’s book which I quoted previously, information not the least of which contradicts what you noted about Katherine Harris and the fact that it was Democrats preceding the then-current GOP state administration which conceived of and instituted the purge list.
Why? You’re again making assertions which have no basis in fact based on the evidence. And it ignores virtually everything I, and even you at times, have provided as contrary evidence. Nevertheless, I’ll never forget the scene during election night that night when [Democrat] Robert Wexler got on as many cameras as he could to complain about that infamous “butterfly ballot” — which, he claimed, caused thousands of “elderly Jewish voters” to mistakenly vote for Pat Buchanan. Of course, the infamous ballot was designed by … a Democrat.
1) That may be true; however, you’ve already lied (and/or Lichtman lied) about Lott retracting his anaIysis as I showed in the Lott e-mail. Why is that, I wonder?
2) What has been shown is that errors were made in Florida in 2000 as there is in every state during every election. The fact is that neither you, nor the USCCR, made the case that there was systematic and purposeful disnfranchisement of voters during that election.
3) The liberally dominated bloc of the USCCR said that, and has been refuted by Fund’s source and others throughout this whole back and forth.
1) Yes.
2) Yes.
3) Yes.
4) The loaded question, of course. The answer is “probably not,” as anyone who is honest (which I am and try to be, contrary to your usual assholish projections) would have to concede that in any election in any state there is always more that can be done to make the process better. So, with that let me enact my own summary:
1. We both agree that there was irregularities and errors made in FL during election 2000.
2. You (and the liberal bloc of the USCCR) believe that the [state] GOP is responsible (and even conspired) for the preponderance of African-Americans either being on the “no vote” list erroneously or voting in areas with large ballot “spoilage.” (This was, again, Perry’s original assertion to which I called bullshit on, and on which you immediately backed him up.)
3. Except that, as shown, Democrats initiated the felon purge list and ran the voting in 24 of 25 counties that had high black voter spoilage rates. This thus contradicts point 2.
4. You say that the [liberal bloc of the] USCCR wanted a DOJ investigation. I provided a link to testimony of a DOJ official who contradicts many of your/their claims. Whether this representative was part of the investigation the USCCR desired, I am not certain I freely admit. The time frame from the links does suggest the DOJ had sufficient time to investigate.
5. Even Allen Lichtman states he doesn’t assign “blame” for the irregularities and merely wanted further investigation.
6. As noted on the other [main] thread, I’ve already conceded that since I am ignorant about statistics and statistical anaIysis, I cannot authoritatively confirm the accuracy of Lott’s work done for Thernstrom, et. al. Except that, again, he directly refutes your (and Lichtman’s) claim that he’s ever retracted anything he’s written on the subject of Florida 2000.
OK. Personally I think we’ve drained this decade-old subject dry. Feel free to continue if you wish, but I’ve invested too much of my free time on it as it is. I do thank you for vigorous back-and-forth. Such is refreshing at times.
Huge comment in moderation. FYI.
The 2000 Florida vote? My anaIysis is that slightly more Floridians went to the polls intending to vote for Al Gore, but, because Republicans are generally smarter and more highly educated than Democrats, slightly more people who intended to vote for George Bush actually cast legitimate, non-spoiled ballots.
Your anaIysis is nothing but a guess, of course, and doesn’t seem to address how people were “less intelligent” because they had the same skin colour as felons, nor does it address the actual findings of the USCCR as given in their report.
But, Dana, if you want a literacy test or an intelligence test for voters, why not have the guts to come out and say it? I think the results would be pretty amusing.
Hmm, one thing I had wanted to include didn’t make it, regarding this paragraph:
So let’s see if I have this straight – you’re saying that the reason why so many people who did not commit felonies and happened to be African-American were purged from the roll was because African-Americans commit more felonies than other people? And that dropping people from a voter list because they had the same skin colour as felons doesn’t constitute discrimination?
As the WaPo noted:
iv, Do you honestly believe that, in Florida of 2000, the State did all it could to allow African-Americans who are eligible to vote in Florida be allowed to vote?
[...]
4) The loaded question, of course. The answer is “probably not,” as anyone who is honest (which I am and try to be, contrary to your usual assholish projections) would have to concede that in any election in any state there is always more that can be done to make the process better.
Those findings from the USCCR again:
As noted on the other [main] thread, I’ve already conceded that since I am ignorant about statistics and statistical anaIysis,
Yes, we can see that. Allow me to try, once again, to show your problem.
Imagine, in a population of millions, the cancer rate was, say, 1.6% a year – every year, 16 out of every 1000 people would get cancer. Call it Indiana. Imagine that 16 out every 1000 people in Indiana got cancer each year. Can you imagine that, or is it too difficult for you?
Now imagine that in one city of that State (with, say, 11% of the population, call it Indianapolis), the cancer rate was, say, 14.4%. Imagine that 144 out of every 1000 people in Indianapolis got cancer every year. Can you imagine that, or is it too difficult for you?
So we have a situation where, for those who live outside Indianapolis, 16 out of every 1000 people get cancer, and for those who live inside Indianapolis, 144 out of every 1000 people get cancer. Can you imagine that, or is it too difficult for you?
Now, let us imagine that we have someone who says that he’s ignorant about statistics and statistical anaIysis, but that cancer occurs all over the nation, it can be caused by many things, and there’s no proof that there is anything specially bad about Indianapolis.
That’s you, Hube.
Spanked again.
Observe ropelight, folks. The Republican impeachment drive is germinating with the completely whacked-out right, where the whisper campaign is beginning.
In a year (or sooner), Dana and other very serious conservatives will be nodding their heads that something needs to be looked into here, FOX will be running every subpoena as top headlines, and all the very serious people who told Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid not to impeach blatant war criminals like GWB and Cheney for fear of “dividing the country” will be nowhere in sight.
Henry, I give it about 9 months before the first bill of impeachment is introduced.