86 Comments

  1. They forgot one phrase, the one of Fundamentally Changing America.

    The fundamentals didn’t need changing. But BO is hell bent on a Progressive/Socialist/Communist agenda for this country.

  2. The more we learn about Sherrod, the less the left wants us to know about Sherrod. The KKK people who killed her father? That was a member of her family who killed her father. And she’s clearly a racist and race-baiter. Because the more we learn about her, the less the left wants us to know about her.

    But, yes, Obama chose his friends carefully so he wouldn’t be seen as a sell-out (to whom?).
    Marxist professors.
    Jeremiah Wright (he “never heard” Wright’s sermons). Under the bus he goes.
    William Ayers (he “never knew” Ayers bombed the Pentagon and murdered cops and advocated the killing of millions of Americans).
    George Soros (who helped the Nazis acquire all sorts of Jewish booty during Hitler’s reign).
    Van Jones (a 9-11 truther and marxist). Under the bus he goes.
    The list of friends Obama carefully chose who have gone under the bus is extensive, as is the list of friends Obama chose who are extreme radicals and opposed to the US Constitution.

  3. Marxism from the mouth of Barack Obama, it was his father’s American Dream, and it’s our nightmare reality of economic destruction masquerading as fundamental transformation.

    If Barack Obama isn’t the anti-Christ, he’s as close to it as any 20th Century bogeyman ever got, and we’re only in the first decade of the 21st Century. And, if the Messiah from Chicago gets his way America will be only a fond memory before the second decade is over.

  4. John H.: “That was a member of her family who killed her father.”

    Where did that come from? Righties making up stuff up to stave off the shame of being caught railroading her?

  5. The topic here is Barack Obama’s open admission that he conscientiously sought out instruction from Marxist Professors in College.

  6. Actually, he said he chose them as friends. And all context is missing.

    ropelight, you are more of a communist than Obama. He is a dedicated corporatist.

  7. Here ya go, naggy.

    Sherrod’s father was named Hosie Miller. His alleged killer was named Cal Hall, who died in 1976. The newspaper called the Albany Herald has published some very interesting details about the case.

    Documents obtained through a Georgia Open Records Act request Friday show that Hall was charged at least three different times in connection with Miller’s killing and each time the grand jury declined to prosecute.

    Grace Miller, Hosie Miller’s wife and Sherrod’s mother, said Friday that she didn’t know if the FBI had opened an investigation into her husband’s killing.

    “I hadn’t heard that but, I think it would be a good thing if they did,” Miller said. “But, then again, it won’t bring him back and that was a long time ago.”

    Another interesting fact revealed in this article is that Shirley’s mother – Grace Miller – said she was related, though distantly to Cal Hall.

    But that doesn’t impact the fact Obama said he carefully chose his friends in order to show he was not a sell-out, and among those carefully chosen friends were MARXIST professors. What agenda are you proving you’re not selling out if part of that proof is the careful selection of MARXIST professors as part of your circle of friends?

  8. And I would REALLY LOVE to have links in a darker green (if green is to be the color of choice) because the links fade into the grey-scale text far too easily. (I have 2 different links in the above comment.)

  9. Ropelight, Obama is clearly NOT the antiChrist. I believe the antiChrist is as real as hydrogen hydroxide. I believe (without any solid evidence) the antiChrist is alive today. But the antiChrist cannot come out of the anti-Christian Socialist movement. At all. The antiChrist fits the definition of a moby much more closely than Moby himself could’ve ever dreamed. And our liberal friend Jeff, who debates here with honor and integrity, understands my position.

    (“Jeff” above is a hyper-link.)

  10. John H.: “Here ya go, naggy.”

    Not sure how this negatively impacts Ms. Sherrod. Go ahead and learn all you like, as far as I’m concerned.

    Also not sure how quivering in terror inside your house as a murderous gang threatens you and your mom makes you a race-baiter. Or relating the story later. By your logic, the Jews race-baited the Nazis.

  11. “What agenda are you proving you’re not selling out if part of that proof is the careful selection of MARXIST professors as part of your circle of friends?”

    Probably trying to prove he wasn’t the center-right politician that he is. And the corporatist. Probably trying to prove he was liberal.

    You know, Marxist professors in America aren’t the same as Soviet dictators. And don’t continue to believe the Soviet sham of a Czarist dictatorship in communist drag as real Marxism.

  12. Naggy, your 3:32 defies all logic decryption. All I see is a 22-gauge buckshot-at-200-yards attempt at killing your straw-man. And your 3:39 shows you’re full of hooey. Obama is, indeed, a radical leftist. Any denial of that fact is a denial of the truth. But Obama, Sherrod, Pelosi, Reid, Ayers, Frank, Holder, et al are all quite capable in LYING THROUGH THEIR SCUMMY TEETH about basically everything.

  13. Nangleator, you are as slippery as an eel in olive oil. Are you now saying our Marxixt-in-chief is some sort of right-wing cortoratist? The community organizer who brought us the takeover of GM and Chrysler, crazy stimulous spending, the take over of our health care, continued job losses and who is slowly(?) installing Crap & Trade by regulation rather than legislation is now something other than an anti-American Marxist liar? It’s not hard to “fundimentaly change America” when you replace equal justice under law with some bull crap egual outcome for social justice. I’ve noticed in life that when politicians try to make sure no one is left behind, they usually succeed in making sure no one gets ahead either.

  14. John, what you chose to believe is your business. Why you profess your beliefs here is also not my business, however, possible candidates for the anti-Christ are many and varied, for example, Doc Holiday opined that it might have been Big Nose Kate, while lots of early Christians were certain it was Nero. Modern opinion is no less divided. My use of the term above was more of a literary device than a technical description. I meant no offense to anyone except the usual suspects, who’s worship of a false god is my pleasure to mock.

    Generally speaking, I find Christians and Jews preferable to most other believers. They have their faults, but they’re not usually of the sort that greatly irritate or impede me, although it does happen. And, since I’m more familiar with Christians and Jews than with Muslims, or Hindus, or Buddhists, or Scientologists, or Wiccans, I’m more experienced with their quirks and more understanding of their passions. Which is to say that I’m better prepared to side-step the more dogmatic and coercive aspects of their creeds.

    Now, since my reference to Obama as close to the anti-Christ seems to rub you the wrong way, I would gladly replace it with “the worst person in the world” or something similar if I was a registered user, which I’m not. I’m also not out to stir up any conflicts over the details of any particular aspect of the Christian belief system, so please edit my comment to reflect a construction which fits in better with your sensitivities.

    BTW, why you mention Jeff or vouch for his integrity is lost on me. What are you getting at?

  15. John, while you’re at it you might want to change 22 gauge to 12 gauge and knock down the range to something like 40 yards or so. Otherwise the only way you’re going to kill that straw-man is if the noise scares him so bad that he drops dead of a heart attack.

  16. Takeover of GM and Chrysler: The government doesn’t run these corporations, it just invested in them, to save thousands of jobs and billions for our economy.

    Crazy stimulus spending: Which prevented a catastrophic depression, in the opinions of righties, as well as lefties.

    The take over of our health care: Necessary regulation. And, insufficient, probably due to it being a GOP plan from the 90′s.

    Installing Crap & Trade: McCain and Palin campaigned on Cap and Trade. They only hate it now because it has Obama cooties.

  17. Incidentally, had Obama let the automakers die, you’d be just as virulent with your attacks on that tactic.

  18. Ropelight, regarding your 4:35, I won’t be changing anything for the very reasons you listed. And regarding Jeff, he is very clearly an unapologetic liberal (you only need to examine his comments here or his own website for evidence of that) but, unlike the vast majority of leftists who frequent this site, he debates with integrity and honor. He will, indeed, admit when he gets a bit of histo-fact wrong (as he has done on this site when I pointed out his error), as opposed to the likes of Perry, naggy, NZT, Mike G, et al.

    Jeff and aphrael have a few things in common: They’re both liberal, they both are for homosexual marriage, they both place the Constitution in high regard, they both debate with honor and integrity. And the reason I pointed to Jeff (and on occasion point to aphrael) is that Jeff (and aphrael) hold positions and values contrary to mine but yet debate in good faith.

  19. Incidentally, had Obama let the automakers die, you’d be just as virulent with your attacks on that tactic.

    Where’s your proof? Show me your citations to prove your asinine assertion or admit you’re a liar. (Before you attack that sentence, know that is a Perryesque requirement in its entirety.)

    No, if General Motors and Chrysler couldn’t make it without stealing taxpayers’ dollars, General Motors and Chrysler should’ve gone through bankruptcy (without Obama violating federal law in putting UAW at the head of the table and secured creditors on the outside looking in). Government Motors (which includes the former Chrysler brand-name) needs to die. UAW needs to die. And neither of my targets are human, so I cannot be accused of wanting to murder anyone unless the accuser is a downright filthy dirty liar.

  20. Well, John, I’ll look forward to Jeff’s comments. Any liberal who can debate in good faith would be as welcome here as rain on a thirsty cornfield.

    The coming of a rainmaker here would be cause for celebration, almost as welcome as a peace maker in the Middle East.

  21. Nangleator is the only sane commenter on this thread who is making any sense.

    He has made a valiant effort to point out that the radical righties are playing two games here: Guilt by association, and throwing around labels. It’s stupid and meaningless.

    If you must label Obama, be honest: His politics are centrist.

    And yes, he is a corporatist, an American corporatist, like including private insurers as participants in his health care reform, like making loans to two American auto companies, like making agreements with the auto labor unions to reduce benefits and wages, like fighting for loans to small businesses, all of which the Repubs opposed, btw.

    And as far as being a Marxist, how about giving me examples of Obama’s policies which are clearly Marxist. That’s your challenge. But first, you need to define just what a Marxist is and how a Marxist is expected to behave. And yes, there is one restriction: Don’t make stuff up, like you have been pretty much doing this entire thread.

    I await your response, Hitchcock, roper, assovereasy, and the DNWit, Hoagie too. Get out in front of it, boys; don’t slink into the background!!! Hitchcock, you are excused temporarily if you need to change Joshua’s diaper; just wash your hands before typing. :)

  22. Defining a Marxist: You first start by playing the video which is 95 percent of the article here.

    And, Perry, your accusation of making stuff up was blown out of the water over a year ago, and has been repeatedly blown out of the water ever since. For starters, I give you every instance where you “demanded” citations and, upon receiving them, disappeared from the thread, only to repeat your authoritarian “demands” elsewhere. Rinse, repeat. You, Perry, are your own caricature.

    I strongly suggest you, Perry, naggy, Mike G, NZT, et al, learn from honorable folks like Jeff and aphrael. And I gave a link up-thread proving Jeff’s liberal bona fides and Jeff’s honorable debate bona fides. Leftists, go, study to show yourselves approved.

  23. For more clarification, aphrael writes articles here. You can study his articles at that link (which is hard to see with the faded-green v greyscale the right honorable mister pico has by default selected). He clearly has a Constitutional viewpoint (however right or wrong, you be the judge). And he is a man with a husband. And I value his input much more highly than I do the aforementioned dishonorable leftists.

    To be clear, aphrael and I would get along in person as famously as two super-magnets with like-poles facing each other, due to our disparant backgrounds. But in online debates, he and I can debate with honor and even agree on occasion.

  24. Perry thinks Naggy makes sense. There you have it, proof positive they’re both incapable of distinguishing objective facts from Marxist fictions. Obama is no closer to the center of American politics than he is to persuading voters that his healthcare bill won’t result in increased costs, or that the Stimulus bill stimulated anything but more debt.

    Or, that on his inauguration that the earth would begin to heal and the oceans recede. Or, that Obama sat in Reverend Wright’s church for 20 years and never heard Wright’s message of racial hatred and religious bigotry.

    The Marxist Messiah is a bald-faced liar. His whoppers are so many and so obvious that denial is all his bootlickers have to defend him with. Obama’s no closer to the center of American politics than Pluto is to the center of the solar system.

  25. Perry, Obama said in order to not be viewed as a sell-out, he chose his friends carefully. How many of his friends has he already thrown under the bus, Perry?

    In order to not be viewed a sell-out, Obama said he chose his friends carefully. He specifically listed foreigners and Marxist professors. Perry, define sell-out when the proof against being a sell-out is foreigners and Marxist professors as your circle of friends. Tell me, Perry, if someone is NOT a sell-out under those terms, is that person main-stream or a radical?

    I highly doubt Perry will even deign to answer these questions because he likes to play the role of Jell-O as someone tries to nail him down. And even if Perry responds, he will not actually answer the questions but will prevaricate.

  26. John Hitchcock says:
    In order to not be viewed a sell-out, Obama said he chose his friends carefully. He specifically listed foreigners and Marxist professors. Perry, define sell-out when the proof against being a sell-out is foreigners and Marxist professors as your circle of friends. Tell me, Perry, if someone is NOT a sell-out under those terms, is that person main-stream or a radical?

    You are known by the company you keep.

  27. You are known by the company you keep. Bill Ayers, Bernadette Dohrn, Revvum Wright, ACORN, SEIU, Rgulatory Czar Cass Suntstein, School Safety Czar, Kevin Jennings has been intent for a long time on introducing homosexual content into public schools, Science Czar, John Holdren, Green Jobs Czar, Van Jones was a raving Communist, Patrick Gaspard is known as ” ACORN’s man in the White House” just as FCC Diversity Czar, Mark Loyd still pushes the “Fairness Doctrine Act,” and his ambition is to destroy conservative talk radio. Loyd champions Marxist Dictator, Hugo Chavez, in Venezuela, Rosa Brooks, radical trained by leftist billionaire, George Soros, strongly urged the criminal prosecution for war crimes by President George Bush along with VP Dick Cheney for invading Iraq and maintaining Guantanamo Bay as a prison camp for terrorists and combatant enemies of the US, Chai Feldblum and Jeffrey S. Crowley, both openly homosexual, are proponents of polygamy and are part of a gay organization that claims to have 60 of its members presently inside the Obama administration.

  28. School Safety Czar, Kevin Jennings aided and abetted a 30-something male in his statutory rape of an under-age male. NAMBLA, anyone? Does anyone from the left want to even try to advocate for NAMBLA’s unholy desires?

  29. About 2.5 hours ago, I made a simple request: “And as far as being a Marxist, how about giving me examples of Obama’s policies which are clearly Marxist. That’s your challenge. But first, you need to define just what a Marxist is and how a Marxist is expected to behave. And yes, there is one restriction: Don’t make stuff up, like you have been pretty much doing this entire thread.”

    And by the way, what is inherently wrong with being a Marxist? It’s a political philosophy, just like the Center for American Progress (neocons) espouses a political philosophy. So do Conservatives and Liberals. Are we so unsure of ourselves that we have to fear a person who calls himself a Marxist? That’s paranoia!

    Not a one of you bozos stepped up. Instead, you continued your penchant to make things up, to play the guilt by association game, and to throw around your Marxist label at Obama.

    That’s bullcrap, fellows, and you deserve to be called on it again and again, as long as you continue this stuff.

    So now I’ll give you another chance — go for it.

    I will agree with you about aphrael and Jeff, both thoughtful and intelligent debaters. I would put PiaToR in the same class, at the head of it. He is so on point and well researched that he leaves you guys with your jaws hanging open, unable to respond with other than personal attacks. Do you need proof?

    So come on with your answers to the two questions. The fact that you haven’t answered them tells me that all you want to do is throw mud, as opposed to learning anything new!

  30. Yorkshire: “You are known by the company you keep.”

    And just what company is it that Obama keeps, Yorkshire? You put up a rather selective list there; how about all the other people that he has encountered over the years.

    I don’t find it surprising that during his younger years that his inquiring mind sought out a wide variety of people. Nevertheless, you chose to be selective, and then drew conclusions. Is it because you don’t like the man, so you search for everything negative about him that you can find, like Rush and Beck do? That is hardly kosher!

  31. NZT is beneath pond scum and anyone who suggests otherwise is also beneath pond scum. Jeff and aphrael should never be put in the same class as NZT or Perry as Jeff and aphrael are far more honorable and honest than NZT and Perry.

    Regarding Marxism, it has never, under any circumstances, worked anywhere. Wherever it has been tried, people have died — to the tune of hundreds of millions — and it has still failed. China has thrown out full-on Marxism to go with free-market capitalism to push forward, and China has most definitely pushed forward with its free-market-lite system. And the Center for American Progress is not neocon. To claim such is to prove yourself a liar (Perry).

    Now, Perry, I note you didn’t even try to answer me. Obviously you have no cojones. Let’s try again.

    Perry, Obama said in order to not be viewed as a sell-out, he chose his friends carefully. How many of his friends has he already thrown under the bus, Perry?

    In order to not be viewed a sell-out, Obama said he chose his friends carefully. He specifically listed foreigners and Marxist professors. Perry, define sell-out when the proof against being a sell-out is foreigners and Marxist professors as your circle of friends. Tell me, Perry, if someone is NOT a sell-out under those terms, is that person main-stream or a radical?

    I highly doubt Perry will even deign to answer these questions because he likes to play the role of Jell-O as someone tries to nail him down. And even if Perry responds, he will not actually answer the questions but will prevaricate.

    Are you going to prove me right yet again, as you have done so many times in the past? Or are you, for the first time in your life, going to grow some cojones?

  32. Yorkshire: “You are known by the company you keep.”

    And just what company is it that Obama keeps, Yorkshire? You put up a rather selective list there; how about all the other people that he has encountered over the years.

    Selective list???? HA! Partial list is more like it. How about Frank Marshall Davis. His grandfather introduced him as a mentor.

  33. And the list goes on:

    Andy Stern -SEIU

    Ed Montgomery – Auto recovery Czar – Black radical anti business activist. Affirmative Action and Job Preference for blacks. Univ of Maryland Business School Dean teaches US business has caused world poverty. ACORN board member. Communist DuBois Club member.

    Jeffrey Crowley – AIDS Czar – Radical Homosexual.. A Gay Rights activist. Believes in Gay Marriage and especially, a Special Status for homosexuals only, including complete free health care for gays.

    Alan Bersin – Border Czar – The former failed superintendent of San Diego . Ultra Liberal friend of Hilary Clinton. Served as Border Czar under Janet Reno – to keep borders open to illegal’s without interference from US

    David J. Hayes – California Water Czar – Sr. Fellow of radical environmentalist group, “Progress Policy”. No training or experience in water management whatsoever.

    Ron Bloom – Car Czar – Auto Union worker. Anti business & anti nuclear. Has worked hard to force US auto makers out of business. Sits on the Board of Chrysler which is now Auto Union owned.

    Dennis Ross – Central Region Czar – Believes US policy has caused Mid East wars. Obama apologist to the world. Anti gun and completely pro abortion.

    Lynn Rosenthal – Domestic Violence Czar – Director of the National Network to End Domestic Violence. Vicious anti male feminist. Supported male castration.

    Gil Kerlikowske – Drug Czar – Devoted lobbyist for every restrictive gun law proposal, Former Chief of Police in very liberal Seattle. Believes no American should own a firearm. Supports legalization of all drugs

    Carol Brower – Energy and Environment Czar – Political Radical Former head of EPA – known for anti-business activism. Strong anti-gun ownership.

    Joshua DuBois – Faith Based Czar – Political Black activist-Degree in Black Nationalism. Anti gun ownership lobbyist.

    Cameron Davis – Great Lakes Czar – Chicago radical anti- business environmentalist. Blames George Bush for “Poisoning the water that minorities have to drink.” No experience or training in water management. Former ACORN Board member

    Van Jones – Green Jobs Czar – (since resigned).. Black activist Member of American Communist Party and San Francisco Communist Party. Said Geo Bush caused the 911 attack and wanted Bush investigated by the World Court for war crimes. Black activist with strong anti-white views.

    Daniel Fried – Guantanamo Closure Czar – Human Rights activist for Foreign Terrorists. Believes America has caused the war on terrorism. Believes terrorists have rights above and beyond Americans.

    Nancy-Ann DeParle – Health Czar – Former head of Medicare / Medicaid. Strong Health Care Rationing proponent. She is married to a reporter for The New York Times.

    Vivek Kundra – Information Czar – Born in New Delhi, India. Controls all public information, including labels and news releases. Monitors all private Internet emails.

    Todd Stern – International Climate Czar – Anti business former White House chief of Staff- Strong supportrer of the Kyoto Accord. Pushing hard for Cap and Trade. Blames US business for Global warming. Anti- US business prosperity.

    Dennis Blair – Intelligence Czar – Stopped US guided missile program as “provocative”. Chair of ultra liberal “Council on Foreign Relations” which blames American organizations for regional wars.

    Kenneth Feinberg – Pay Czar – Chief of Staff to TED KENNEDY. Lawyer who got rich off the 911 victims payoffs.

    Cass Sunstein – Regulatory Czar – Liberal activist judge believes free speech needs to be limited for the “common good”. Against 1st amendment. Rules against personal freedoms many times –like private gun ownership and right to free speech.

    John Holdren – Science Czar – Fierce ideological environmentalist, Sierra Club, Anti business activist. Claims US business has caused world poverty. No Science training.

    Earl Devaney – Stimulus Accountability Czar – Spent career trying to take guns away from American citizens. Believes in Open Borders to Mexico . Author of statement blaming US gun stores for drug war in Mexico .

    J. Scott Gration – Sudan Czar – Native of Communist Democratic Republic of Congo. Believes US does little to help Third World countries. Council of foreign relations, asking for higher US taxes to support United Nations.

    Herb Allison – TARP Czar – Fannie May CEO responsible for the US recession by using real estate mortgages to back up the US stock market. Caused millions of people to lose their life savings.

    John Brennan – Terrorism Czar – Anti CIA activist. No training in diplomatic or gov. affairs. Believes Open Borders to Mexico and a dialog with terrorists and has suggested Obama disband US military.

    Aneesh Chopra – Technology Czar – No Technology training. Worked for the Advisory Board Company, a health care think tank for hospitals. Anti doctor activist. Supports Obama Health care rationing and salaried doctors working exclusively for the Gov. health care plan

    Adolfo Carrion Jr. – Urban Affairs Czar – Puerto Rican born Anti American activist and leftist group member in Latin America . Millionaire “slum lord” of the Bronx, NY. Owns many lavish homes and condos which he got from “sweetheart” deals with labor unions. Wants higher taxes on middle class to pay for minority housing and health care.

    Ashton Carter – Weapons Czar – Far leftist. Wants all private weapons in US destroyed. Supports UN ban on firearms ownership in America .. No Other “policy”

    Gary Samore – WMD Policy Czar – Former US Communist. Wants US to destroy all WMD unilaterally as a show of good faith. Has no other “policy”.

  34. Perry asks the question of the century:
    And by the way, what is inherently wrong with being a Marxist?

    Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, Che Guevera, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jung Il, FARC, Lenin,

  35. I’m sorry Perry, there is nothing wrong with being a Marxist other than the 200 million people who have been murdered by them. They are just another political philosophy? Unfortunately one who murders it’s opponents at at alarming rate. Trust me, I’ve fought them, seen them and I’ve seen what they do to people. It ain’t pretty. Ask Pho. He’d kill you to further “the cause”. Think I’m wrong? Go ahead ask. Is there nothing he would not do to “change America”? Remember you are still an American. Pho hates and wants an end to our country and you side with him.

    Our current rulers are commie, pinko, Marxist rulers. (yes, I used the term rulers because even when we don’t want a policy or law they force it upon us. That is a ruler). They want to remake America, not make it better. They are of the same veign as Pho and perhaps you. Either love our liberty and accept it ain’t perfect, or hate America and try to make it a Marxist utopia. I choose the former, how ’bout you? Hope and change my ass!

  36. Hoagie says:
    I’m sorry Perry, there is nothing wrong with being a Marxist other than the 200 million people who have been murdered by them. They are just another political philosophy?

    Besides being a Progressive, Perry is now a Relativist. Doesn’t matter, one political philosophy is as good as another. So what if one produces Liberty, and the other produces slavery. With that thinking, North Korea is no different from South Korea. What’s the difference in Perry’s mind. At least we see that Perry is out there on the Far, Far Left with his messiah, BO.

  37. I’m sorry Perry, there is nothing wrong with being a Marxist other than the 200 million people who have been murdered by them.

    How many people have been killed by authoritarians? Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot…

  38. Very slipery, Pho. But those four had more in common than just authoritarianism. All four were either socialists and/or communists. Also all four were atheists. If one does not believe in God it follows that one does not believe in “natural law’, i.e that our rights flow from God. Lacking that belief it becomes that our rights flow from (or are granted by) government. If government can grant us our rights (or our very lives) it can also deny those rights or just plain remove them altogether. Which is precisly what Hitler, Stalin, Mao and PolPot did. It wasn’t so much their authority as is was their total disrespect of the God-given rights of man which caused the problem.

  39. Hoagie says:
    I’m sorry Perry, there is nothing wrong with being a Marxist other than the 200 million people who have been murdered by them. They are just another political philosophy?

    Marxism is a political philosophy, not a person, John! Besides that, you cannot hold a today’s Marxist responsible for the behavior of other Marxists in the past, unless they are calling for a repeat of that behavior. Today we have more of an economic competition (China, Russia) rather than a military solution playing out. In fact, we capitalists have been one of the major military aggressors on the globe, going back to the Korean War. Americans seem to overlook this fact!

    Although I am not a subscriber to the Marxist approach, I see no harm in having Marxists participate in the arena of ideas. Those who see harm in it are paranoid, meaning that they have no confidence in their own philosophy, thus perceive a threat that must be eradicated by force if necessary.

    This awareness came to me years ago when, as a young man, I witnessed the behavior of Senator McCarthy and his cohorts, their attempts to blackball individuals, even those who may have associated with an avowed Marxist. We see this same guilt by association behavior right here by the likes of Hitchcock and the roper.

  40. Yorkshire: “Besides being a Progressive, Perry is now a Relativist. Doesn’t matter, one political philosophy is as good as another. “

    Yorkshire, kindly do not put words into my mouth. This is just one more straw man, an idiotic technique that may stir up the base, but in truth is meaningless. Stick to debating/criticizing what I do say, not what I don’t, otherwise you continue to demonstrate your weakness!

  41. Hoagie claims: “Our current rulers are commie, pinko, Marxist rulers.”

    John, you need to buy another business, because your idleness is beginning to play tricks on your mind! But I do get it: Anyone who has a different political approach than yours, or the Repubs/Conservatives, must be “commie, pinko, Marxist”. That’s crazy! If you don’t like it, then work to get your candidates in office, as per the way our American system is supposed to work.

  42. Yorkshire: “And the list goes on:”

    It appears that McCarthyism is alive and well, as being promoted here by Yorkshire. For shame, Yorkshire!!!

  43. freedom and bondage.

    progressive ideology and marxism claim to show people how oppressed they are and promise to free them from it, while ironically enslaving those they promise to free, to themselves. it is actually the oldest trick in the book.

    there is nothing new under the sun.

  44. Marxism is a political philosophy, not a person, John!”

    Thank you Perry, but I am aware of that. I am also aware of the fact that every Marxist ruler in history has been a mass murderer, has reduced the human condition to a slave state and has destroyed everything they’ve touched. I do not consider the refusal to allow “participation” by evil to be paranoid. I consider it to be smart and just.

    Contrary to your assertion that I “ cannot hold a today’s Marxist responsible for the behavior of other Marxists in the past, unless they are calling for a repeat of that behavior” , I can and do because they still endorse that behavior. That’s like saying I can’t hold today’s KKK responsible for the behavor of former KKK’ers. They have not changed their destructive tendencies and therefore, they are dangerous. It’s not paranoia, it’s common sense. Why is it that marxist, commie countries will not permit their citizens to freely come and go? Why is it that when I meet a North Korean I know in an instant he is from the North? Because he walks like a man but acts like a beaten dog, that’s why.

    There is no equivelence between freedom and slavery and there is no room at the table for those who would enslave others.

  45. FYI, Perry. There are thousadnds who hold different political thoughts than I or even conservatives who are NOT commie, pinko, Marxists. Specter, lieberman, Biden, Clinton, Bush (both), and hundreds of others I could name. They are not pinkos, but Obama and his minions of czars and political operatives are. Don’t shoot me, the messenger, just cause you don’t like the message. They all operate from a commie basis and perspective. They always seek government solutions first rather than the last resort. That sir is commie, statist BS. That’s why we need to “pass the bill to know what is in it”. That’s a fuckin’ disgrace. And any politician who would say such a thing is a disgrace to the republic.

  46. 7:24pm yesterday, Yorkie put up a list of radicals whose company Obama keeps.

    8:31pm yesterday, Perry comes back with:

    And just what company is it that Obama keeps, Yorkshire? You put up a rather selective list there; how about all the other people that he has encountered over the years.

    I don’t find it surprising that during his younger years that his inquiring mind sought out a wide variety of people. Nevertheless, you chose to be selective, and then drew conclusions. Is it because you don’t like the man, so you search for everything negative about him that you can find, like Rush and Beck do? That is hardly kosher!

    9:35pm yesterday, Yorkie put together an even larger list of radicals Obama surrounds himself with.

    8:55am today, Perry attacks Yorkie for actually being more inclusive and showing Obama’s radicals of today, exactly what Perry wanted him to do back at 8:31pm yesterday.

    Perry, you are a highly dishonorable partisan attacker. And by Obama’s own words, he is a radical. By Obama’s own circle of friends and associates, who are radicals, socialists, anti-Constitution, anti-American, Obama’s a radical.

  47. BTW Perry, it was not “we capitalists” who invaded North Korea to start the war, It was the North who invaded the South. You get your fuckin’ facts straight! There, I used an exclamation point, happy? I’d also like to point out to you Perry that during the 1990′s over 9,000,000 (yes, 9 million) North Koreans were starved to death due to lack of food. That’s right, in the 1990′s, not 1870′s. While we evil capitalists were complaining our “poor” had an obiesity problem, their poor were wasting away to die. Tell me about how Marxism is “just a political philosophy”. I guess the North Koreans were just “bending the cost curve” for food, eh?

  48. Perry says:
    7 August 2010 at 8:55 am (Edit)
    Yorkshire: “And the list goes on:”

    It appears that McCarthyism is alive and well, as being promoted here by Yorkshire. For shame, Yorkshire!!!

    Perry, you asked, I answered, so, prove the list wrong. BTW have fun doing that.

  49. Perry says: THIS MORNING
    7 August 2010 at 8:41 am (Edit)
    Yorkshire: “Besides being a Progressive, Perry is now a Relativist. Doesn’t matter, one political philosophy is as good as another. “

    Yorkshire, kindly do not put words into my mouth. This is just one more straw man, an idiotic technique that may stir up the base, but in truth is meaningless. Stick to debating/criticizing what I do say, not what I don’t, otherwise you continue to demonstrate your weakness!

    BUT LAST NIGHT
    Perry says:
    6 August 2010 at 8:23 pm (Edit)

    And by the way, what is inherently wrong with being a Marxist? It’s a political philosophy, just like the Center for American Progress (neocons) espouses a political philosophy. So do Conservatives and Liberals. Are we so unsure of ourselves that we have to fear a person who calls himself a Marxist? That’s paranoia!

    Now who made the Relativist statement Perry???? YOU DID!

  50. No, Hitchcock, you folks are dishonorable for playing this stupid, anachronistic guilt by association game.

    I challenged you folks to demonstrate exactly what in Obama’s policies as President show that he is a Marxist. Not a one of you has stepped up to this critical question, instead, you continue pushing your propaganda with your games. Not impressive! Definitely not convincing! Most definitely, very weak!!!

  51. And Yorkshire, exactly what is a ‘relativist’. Never mind, I know: A relativist is a bad word describing anyone who does not agree with righties!

  52. For the bureaucrat, the world is a mere object to be manipulated by him.
    Karl Marx

    From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.
    Karl Marx

    I think when you spread the wealth around it’s good for everybody.
    Barack Obama

  53. Perry says:
    7 August 2010 at 11:55 am (Edit)
    And Yorkshire, exactly what is a ‘relativist’. Never mind, I know: A relativist is a bad word describing anyone who does not agree with righties!

    You don’t have a clue what a Relativist is even though you explained it perfectly LAST NIGHT.

  54. I’m still waiting for a list from you righties, a list of the policies that would justify your Marxist label for the Obama administration. Instead, now you have decided to play the Senator McCarthy game with your selected list of names of supposedly bad people.

    You righties are full of games, but empty of policies that will move this country forward. If I am wrong, give me a detailed list of what you would do. Don’t just tell me you will cut taxes and cut spending, because you’ve not done that from Reagan on.

    Since I know you don’t have such a list, and since you have been TOTALLY uncooperative, you have, in effect, left it to Obama and the Dems to govern.

    If the American people, out of anger with Washington stoked up by you know-nothings/do-nothings, return you irresponsible critters to power, we are guaranteed yet harder times ahead, filled with chaos and violence, I’m sorry to predict. You people come to the table with absolutely nothing but negative rhetoric to offer, having no expressed concern for the diminishment of the your own middle class existence. There is a term in the dictionary for this dysfunctional behavior: suicidal

  55. Perry:
    If the American people, out of anger with Washington stoked up by you know-nothings/do-nothings, return you irresponsible critters to power, we are guaranteed yet harder times ahead, filled with chaos and violence, I’m sorry to predict. You people come to the table with absolutely nothing but negative rhetoric to offer, having no expressed concern for the diminishment of the your own middle class existence. There is a term in the dictionary for this dysfunctional behavior: suicidal

    I didn’t know Journolist was still alive! Perry, you stated you didn’t know what a Relavatist was when you perfectly described one. I just think you are at a point where you won’t believe, and your mind can’t let yourself believe what we are telling you. Tell ya what, spend an afternoon at Cape Henlopen Park and clear your mind. Just watch the seagulls, the Cape May-Lewes Ferry, the ships heading to and from Philly, feel the sea breeze, see if you spot a whale and dolphins and forget about this stuff.

  56. Dana, it is probably still too early to tell, but so far you and Art Downs appear to have been incorrect, Obama and the Dems correct.

    I find it noteworthy and disconcerting that you would be against the promotion of American manufacturing, and that you would have little concern about additional American jobs lost, had loans not been made to GM and Chrysler. Even if either of the companies fail, I think it has been well worth the try!

  57. Yorkshire:

    Now you know why my wife and I chose to live here for our remaining days!

    I appreciate your prescription to cure my ills, but I think you have misidentified those who are in need of the fresh sea air and environs, compared to those who are not in need, but enjoy the respite anyway, because it is indeed right here!

  58. Perry throws out yet another straw man in attacking Dana, as leftists are wont to do. Deflect and dement the opponent’s position and then attack the demented position. Honor is irrelevant to the likes of Perry.

  59. Hitchcock:

    Here is a lesson you need to learn: Disagreeing with Dana is not a personal attack on Dana, although it is a disagreement with his position. This is what we call a discussion or a debate, and well worthwhile, especially when the personal attacks are avoided, and the focus is on the issues. It is obvious, and has been since I’ve been a commenter on here, that you do not understand this. But I will give you some credit for improvement: You used to call people liars for disagreeing with you. You have not been doing this lately, so you get a gold star for that!

    And by the way, show me the straw man you claim I created. There is no straw man, indicating that you do not understand what a straw man is. Basically, it is an assumed hypothetical often set up so it can be attacked, thus making the exercise a fallacy.

  60. I find it noteworthy and disconcerting that you would be against the promotion of American manufacturing, and that you would have little concern about additional American jobs lost

    That is your straw man, Perry.

  61. That is not a straw man, although I can see that the choice of the verb form was poor. Instead of “would be”, I should have used ‘are’, so I can understand the confusion. My bad!

  62. Perry, show me where Dana ever said he’s against promotion of American jobs. You cannot because he never did; therefore, your accusation is indeed a straw man with dishonest intent.

  63. OK, now the “liar” and such comes out, just when I have given you a compliment. Oh well.

    So just exactly what was my lie, Hitchcock?

    Now be very careful to distinguish an opinion from a misrepresentation of a known fact. And don’t think you get to define a fact without a credible citation, otherwise it is an opinion which might be wrong, but not a lie.

  64. Obviously lending money to the auto manufacturers saves jobs. Conversely, allowing them to fail loses jobs. Which side then is promoting jobs. No straw man there, Hitchcock! Moreover, from the context it was obvious that I was referring to auto workers jobs, and not jobs in general. No straw man there, Hitchcock!

  65. You know, Perry, your “give me a citation or admit you’re a liar” mantra was old last year, along with your long history of refusal to acknowledge citations that prove you dead wrong. Your intent is dishonest and dishonorable from the word “go.”

  66. Hitchcock, you know as well as I how easy it is on this blog to miss a response. I have never purposely not responded to a citation given as a response to a request, so you have assumed something that you did not know, and then called me dishonest and a liar. Look, I express my opinion, you express yours, let’s not get into these personal attacks, OK? Btw, I distinguish between political labels and personal attacks, since most of us use the labels as a shortcut to describe or characterize a political philosophy or position on an issue.

    And yes, if you don’t give a citation for an alleged statement of fact, your argument is at least ineffective, at worst made up/a lie!

  67. If a business model needs a government loan else it fail, let it fail. A new business model (from the same people or different people) will come in and fill the void.

    A loan has a multiplier of less than 1. A tax cut has a multiplier of greater than 1. What good is it to raise your taxes so you have to pay a million more in taxes then turn around and loan you 900k? First, you’re out your own million, second you owe that 900k PLUS INTEREST, meaning you’re out even more money. There is no benefit, other than political, in doing that.

  68. Which now makes you the liar, Hitchcock, because you have no evidence otherwise. That is dishonorable and dishonest. Interesting that you attribute your apparently instinctive behavior to others!

  69. Perry asked:

    And by the way, what is inherently wrong with being a Marxist? It’s a political philosophy, just like the Center for American Progress (neocons) espouses a political philosophy. So do Conservatives and Liberals. Are we so unsure of ourselves that we have to fear a person who calls himself a Marxist? That’s paranoia!

    One could just as easily asked, what is inherently wrong with being a National Socialist? After all, Nationalsozialismus is just another political philosophy.

  70. Dana Pico says:
    7 August 2010 at 3:41 pm (Edit)
    Perry asked:

    And by the way, what is inherently wrong with being a Marxist? It’s a political philosophy, just like the Center for American Progress (neocons) espouses a political philosophy. So do Conservatives and Liberals. Are we so unsure of ourselves that we have to fear a person who calls himself a Marxist? That’s paranoia

    !

    One could just as easily asked, what is inherently wrong with being a National Socialist? After all, Nationalsozialismus is just another political philosophy.

    Afterall, one is just as good as another. They’re all equal in the end. People won’t care if they have freedom and liberty, they’ll only care there’s a government to take care of their needs from cradle to grave. :-(

  71. I await your response, Hitchcock, roper, assovereasy, and the DNWit, Hoagie too.
    -Perry

    Look, I express my opinion, you express yours, let’s not get into these personal attacks, OK?
    -Perry

    Too easy.

  72. When I look at those who claim to be Marxists, or have some vague sympathy for Marxism, I tend to see them falling in one of two categories. The first, and simplest, would be those of authoritarian bent, who simply see Marxism as a means to gain authoritarian control.

    The second I see as the naïve, those who are enamored of the “share and share alike” notions that so attracted Karl Marx, without ever seeing that Marxism is based on a complete lack of understanding of either economics or human nature. It is a strange form of utopianism, and simply unworkable. But the second group unwittingly turned into the enablers of the first, and the first wrought more horror on mankind than even the Nazis.

  73. Dana: “When I look at those who claim to be Marxists, or have some vague sympathy for Marxism, I tend to see them falling in one of two categories. The first, and simplest, would be those of authoritarian bent, who simply see Marxism as a means to gain authoritarian control.”

    Thus I conclude that Bush & Co., including Karl Rove, and all the absolutist right wingers, including the TEA Partiers, are closet Marxists! :)

  74. Hitchcock: “A loan has a multiplier of less than 1. A tax cut has a multiplier of greater than 1.”

    I don’t think this is correct. Citation please!

  75. Hitchcock: “A loan has a multiplier of less than 1. A tax cut has a multiplier of greater than 1.”

    I don’t think this is correct. Citation please!

    No surprise – it’s false. Then again, PB is a noted liar.

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